Stuff happens too fast to draw & defend, maybe time to take gun grab training

[orionz06]

You need more ECQC in your life.

[Jay Cunningham]

You only learn that from spending ALOT of time in street culture and that's just not an option for the average joe.

Some things there just aren't any tactics for except general principles of speed, surprise, and violence of action, and even then the initiative deficit may very well be to deep.

I think this is important. Most instructors wouldn't say this in regards to their own coursework. Most would gussy it up.

[ChrisG]

I echo the recommendations to take ECQC, and specifically the May course in Culpeper. You will get a better understanding of the dynamics you're discussing from a single two-minute training evolution in ECQC than you could from 10,000 hours of internet forum discussions. It may sound like group-think with everyone giving you the same advice, but I assure you the course material really is that good.

[jthhapkido]

I'd like to give loud, sustained applause to SouthNarc for his response---because quite frankly (and no offense meant, because I don't know him) I expected (given the responses from other people) that he would say "well, our class will help you deal with that sort of thing" even though pretty much no class would actually have helped.

He said:

Well it sounds like in all three cases there were factors regarding life choices, daily decisions, and associations that were the genesis of all three events. There isn't much in the realm of tactics and techniques that can overcome alot of what you described in my opinion.

That is just completely spot on. The circumstances surrounding the situations lead to the problems, and in all three cases, there was no magic technique that really would have helped. At least, not necessarily very much.

Sometimes, you are simply screwed by the situation. (And the people in it, though hopefully not literally.)

Sometimes, there is a way out. And sometimes, your training gives you a chance where you wouldn't have otherwise had it. But often---especially by surprise, you are just screwed, and there really isn't anything to be done.

A lot of instructors would have made some boast at that point, about how their techniques would have given the OP choices, etc, how it could have been handled--and they would have been full of it.

So kudos to Southnarc. Seriously. This is not sarcasm---I'm really impressed.

{snip}
Generally speaking unless my gut said he was going to do me ( and that was only once) I let them rob me because it was always being captured on video and made for a slam dunk for an armed robbery charge. Now I'm not saying DON'T take action, but I can't give you a tidy decision matrix on how to know when a bad guy just wants something from you and when he decides he's going to kill you. You only learn that from spending ALOT of time in street culture and that's just not an option for the average joe.

Some things there just aren't any tactics for except general principles of speed, surprise, and violence of action, and even then the initiative deficit may very well be to deep.

Sometimes, there isn't anything to do once you are in it. Now, making different choices prior to the situation would have made a difference---but often we figure that out too late. (I would say that given the situations from the OP, perhaps some personal re-adjustments about choices might be in order? Or an acceptance that such things will continue if you don't change you habits?)

Violence is complicated--and many people simply don't have the internal reference points (and emotional understanding) to deal with societal violence. They might have the will and the techniques--but understanding why people go with violence, what triggers it, and what is important to know to change the situation (de-escalation for social violence and for asocial violence are two very different things!) is simply something most people don't have any experience with. Nothing like it has ever occurred in their normal lives (lived under normal societal rules), so when it DOES occur, it is completely outside of their understanding.

I hate to sound like a shill but alot of this would be answered for you by doing the coursework. And it will probably generate some more questions that you had not considered also.

I'd already put "take ECQC" on my to-do list, but given SouthNarc's response, I'm a lot more likely to make the time for it in the near future, as opposed to "sometime".

[KravPirate]

Yep. ECQC. I train with a lot of switched on dudes and ECQC is the best reality check I have ever had. Worth every penny.

[SouthNarc]

Thanks guys I appreciate the kind words.

[cclaxton]

These are great responses, especially someone like SouthNarc who has lived with these situations in the streets.

This friend of mine explains it this way: This is the neighborhoods where he grew up and to him this was "normal" and he didn't get any training in self-defense. So for him it was the risks associated with living life in DC. Sad to say he just kind of accepted it as the way things were so he wasn't that alarmed until his brother was murdered. Then he moved out.

Front Sight put a lot of emphasis on Situational Awareness and making conscious decisions to stay away from situations and think ahead about walking past alleyways, getting in/out of cars with people in vehicles next to you or vans parked next to you, etc. In other words, analyzing the locations where you are and think ahead to consider where and when bad guys might lurk. After hearing these stories from my friend, I am putting that into action.

I will be looking at videos in the meantime until I can afford to schedule time/money to do the ECQC training.

Continue keeping the thread going if others have more to offer.

FYI: I just watched Cocaine Cowboys on Netflix....wow...anybody who was in LE for those times (on the right side) must have been scared sh*tless from the Medellin Cartel goons. If anyone has not seen it...highly recommended.

Thanks,
CC