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Thread: Stuff happens too fast to draw & defend, maybe time to take gun grab training

  1. #1
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Stuff happens too fast to draw & defend, maybe time to take gun grab training

    Friend of mine tells me three stories about gun violence he personally witnessed. He is black, and grew up in DC. He is 38yo man now.

    Story #1: His brother was murdered while leaving a mini-mart in DC because the local gang didn't trust him. The put a gun to his head as he was exiting and pulled the trigger. I asked my friend if he thought he could have defended himself with a firearm, and he said he wouldn't have had time to even draw the gun. In his opinion there is nothing his brother could have done to defend himself.

    Story #2: My friend (let's call him Al) and his friend (let's call him Fred) are outside a DC nightclub when two guys come up and were trying to get money owed them from Fred. One holds a gun against Al's head and the other assailant holds a semiauto against Fred's chest. Fred tried to challenge the assailant saying he didn't owe the money and the assailant pulled the trigger, but the gun jammed, and in the scuffle the two of them got away. Again, I asked Al if he could have defended himself with a handgun and he said it just happened too fast to react, and running was the best option. The guy came up from behind and had the gun to his head and he was completely surprised....they both were.

    Story #3: He told me of a job he had in DC during the 80's and he had to walk home and a gunman surprised him to rob him. Again, he said he would have had no time to react and defend himself with a handgun. He went on to tell how afraid he was because "almost every night" he walked home he saw a dead body from gunshots. This was the 80's during a bad crack epidemic.

    All of a sudden I am really interested in taking one of those gun grabbing self-defense classes. But, perhaps experts here can help propose alternative defense tactics and helpful suggestions, ideas, etc.

    Situational awareness might have helped, but when you are surprised.....you are surprised.
    CC
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  2. #2
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    It sounds like ECQC is right up your alley

  3. #3
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    Paging Southnarc.....

  4. #4
    Site Supporter taadski's Avatar
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    LOL. I was gonna say "I know this guy".

    www.shivworks.com

  5. #5
    Member ezthumper's Avatar
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    Why the focus on the hand gun?

    How about a different question, what could he have done...

  6. #6
    Don't get involved with gangbangers in DC, and don't borrow money from scumbags.

  7. #7
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    There does tend to be that assumption in legitimate personal defense training that you *don't* have a group of killers actually seeking to assassinate you. It's self defense training, not James Bond training.

  8. #8
    Member Shawn.L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JV View Post
    It sounds like ECQC is right up your alley
    Quote Originally Posted by FredM View Post
    Paging Southnarc.....
    Ambushed? Behind the Curve? Caught by suprise by assailants with superior numbers and arms ?

    Yeah

    http://shivworks.com/

    It seems trite to just say "take ECQC" and have a bunch of guys go "take ECQC" , but the truth is that not only is it the most relevant instruction available for your (and all of our really) question but its also more of an experience that must be had than something that can be easily explained. Read the many AAR's on the course, watch the plethora of videos, and just trust us and get to the next one available as a top priority.
    Pittsburgh, PA host for www.aliastraining.com , and www.shivworks.com

    www.anti-fragile.net

  9. #9
    Well it sounds like in all three cases there were factors regarding life choices, daily decisions, and associations that were the genesis of all three events. There isn't much in the realm of tactics and techniques that can overcome alot of what you described in my opinion. I was robbed/ripped at gunpoint in the two years I worked undercover on nine separate occasions and only in one did I actually go for the fight option. That cost me some hearing but kept a bullet out of my head. On another occasion I had a fight in the buy vehicle when a guy went for a gun that got stuck in his pants and discharged right between his legs without hitting him. I don't count that one because he never got the muzzle on me. And I got robbed a once at knife point.

    Generally speaking unless my gut said he was going to do me ( and that was only once) I let them rob me because it was always being captured on video and made for a slam dunk for an armed robbery charge. Now I'm not saying DON'T take action, but I can't give you a tidy decision matrix on how to know when a bad guy just wants something from you and when he decides he's going to kill you. You only learn that from spending ALOT of time in street culture and that's just not an option for the average joe.

    Some things there just aren't any tactics for except general principles of speed, surprise, and violence of action, and even then the initiative deficit may very well be to deep.

    I hate to sound like a shill but alot of this would be answered for you by doing the coursework. And it will probably generate some more questions that you had not considered also.
    Last edited by SouthNarc; 02-11-2013 at 06:00 PM.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter LOKNLOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    ...by doing the coursework. And it will probably generate some more questions that you had not considered also.
    Understatement.
    --Josh
    “Formerly we suffered from crimes; now we suffer from laws.” - Tacitus.

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