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Thread: DOJ memo: Drone strikes on U.S. citizens can be legal

  1. #71
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    I haven't seen any scenarios posed where it sounds remotely possible to apply this lethal sanction to political opposition in the US beyond vague what if they turn this rationale on us? If the circumstances deteriorate to the point that the national command authority is engaging in targetted killings of Americans, in America then so many other Rubicons have been crossed that whatever oversight and standards created in this process will hardly matter.
    This is true, but only to a point. FISA was enacted as a result of the Church Commissions and the rampant, systematic, cultural STASI-ism of the FBI. There was an obvious need to restrict the ability of the government to easily persecute citizens or groups by labeling them as subversive, and I don't think that it would be wise to lose these.

    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Given how many examples of government using power to commit truly horrible acts there are in recent history and the knowledge that fundamental human nature is no different today than it was less than a century ago, it's perfectly sane for us to consider possible abuses...because where there is power there will be abuse of it.

    Anyone who pretends that our society is somehow completely different to the point where it can't happen here is hopelessly naive.
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  2. #72
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    The troubling part that we need to address is a reliable metric which minimizes human error/abuse in identifying who to persecute...
    Oh, that's wacky! Next thing you know, you'll be saying kooky wookie-suiter nonsense like "We should put a definition of 'Treason' right in the Constitution!" or something whack like that.
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  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post

    What's the difference between an Al Queda training camp, and a CONUS carbine class?
    Monkey bars?

  4. #74
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    I'm far from a legal or Constitutional expert...........

    But it seems to me there is a very fine line being towed. A military target terminated via all measures reasonably necessary and available is one thing. The killing of an American citizen, who is allegedly in a leadership role of an identified terror organization without at least an indictment is dangerously close to assassination.

  5. #75
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezthumper View Post
    The president is voted in on a popularity contest and his cronies are vetted by the same man that won that contest and not scrutinized for moral character like our military and CIA/FBI/NSA.
    A presidential candidate does not fall under the same scrutiny, nor is he held to or put through this types of screening. Yet we continually elect presidents based on some star search requirements.
    That is an indictment of the Constitution and not necessarily the "man" who becomes President. If The Framers wanted a moral test, they would have added it. Instead they added an age requirement of 35yo, must be naturally born in the US, and have been a resident for at least 14 years, which leads us to believe that age itself provides enough wisdom and experience to server as The Executive. Of course the problem with the moral test is that it is subjective...whose morals? If you have lived to be 35, if you are a scoundrel, it is very likely you will have been found out by then. Of course we have some Presidents who hid it very well: Richard Nixon (crook), Ulysses S. Grant (Corruption), Andrew Johnson (Opposed 14th Amendment), and Warren Harding (Corruption).

    And then there is the infamous case of Zachary Taylor, who was a great and fearless soldier, but was a terrible President, ignorant of the political process to the point of being a joke. Zachary goes to prove that being a great soldier does not qualify you for office. Second place goes to Franklin Pierce, a Mexican war veteran whose primary goal as President was to expand and preserve slavery.

    Also, there is an interesting story about how popularity plays a role in the election of President. Just look at Andrew Jackson, who happened to be a Officer in the War of 1812. His war career weighed against him in the election of 1828, as he had executed the six ring-leaders of a mutinous militia of 200. The rest were fined. But it was Andrew Jackson, and the many scandalous behavior (duels, women, etc.) that resulted in the first election where the common people determined the outcome of the election. Some say that without the scandals, the common people may have not showed up.

    By the time a person runs for President these days, their background has been gone over with a magnifying glass numerous times. We have a much less chance these days of a scoundrel becoming President.

    CC
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  6. #76
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post

    By the time a person runs for President these days, their background has been gone over with a magnifying glass numerous times. We have a much less chance these days of a scoundrel becoming President.

    CC
    Ha! Good one!

    ...wait...you're serious...
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  7. #77
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Smart article by the consistently smart Andrew McCarthy. He peels the onion pretty deeply. I'd say more than one side of the debate is both challenged by parts of his analysis and validated by other parts of it.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...rew-c-mccarthy
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  8. #78
    Member BaiHu's Avatar
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    My favorite part:

    Yes, Holder conceded, this might mean that the government will be barred from detaining and interrogating many a “dangerous terrorist.” And yes, it risks the reprise of 9/11’s slaughter of nearly 3,000 Americans. “But,” he blithely*concluded, “our Nation has always been prepared to accept some risk as the price of guaranteeing that the Executive does not have arbitrary power to imprison citizens.”

    Does this go for 2A as well?

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  9. #79
    Looks like Dorner is the first American on US soil to warrant a drone.

    http://now.msn.com/christopher-dorne...get-on-us-soil

    A hellfire strike would be a suitably dramatic ending to this cluster.

  10. #80
    Member fuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMorse View Post
    Looks like Dorner is the first American on US soil to warrant a drone.

    http://now.msn.com/christopher-dorne...get-on-us-soil

    A hellfire strike would be a suitably dramatic ending to this cluster.
    Article says nothing about the use of drone-launched ordinance against him, just that they are using drones to try and simply locate him. Unless I read it wrong.

    Even with all the crazy crap going on, I'd still be pretty shocked if he got a missile up his butt. Though I probably shouldn't be.
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