WARNING: This Will Make You Vomit: BBC Rape Artist: Jimmy Savile

[BaiHu]

I don't post this necessarily for the awfulness/warning of it, I offer this as a post to discuss, "When do you step in?"

A commentator I read was more interested in the fact that there must of been numerous people who turned a blind eye for their own selfish reasons, rather than take down some industry giant (Similar to Penn State). Sickening.

The story: http://www.steynonline.com/5298/the-court-predator

Here's the commentary. I have to cut/paste a snippet of it in order for you to find it, b/c there is no direct link:

http://ace.mu.nu/

Steyn on the BBC's Chief Pedophile, Jimmy Savile
—Ace

"It's not the single pedophile rapist that fascinates and sickens me -- it's hundreds of people in a position to act who nevertheless facilitate the ongoing rapes and molestations, because -- why? Why exactly? It's good for their career? They've got an eye on a rather minor promotion and they don't want to jeopardize it by bringing up this whole "rape" business?"

[TCinVA]

It's simple human nature.

Is there someone in your life you look up to? Someone you regard as a friend? Someone you think you know?

What if I told you they got off raping kids? Would you believe me? What if I pointed to eccentric and odd behavior? You might agree it was eccentric, but would you see it as sinister? As signs of a predator? Probably not. At least not at first.

The simple truth of human nature is that we don't like to believe bad things about people we know, or people we think we know. (We like to think we know celebrities) Last time I looked at statistics, the majority of children that were abused were being abused by people they knew and that their family trusted. There were always signs...but those signs were not the same thing as actually seeing the act take place. The serial abusers are sophisticated predators who do a superb job of wearing a mask in public to hide the monster within. Little things that turn out to have been giant red flags aren't quite so obvious in the moment when you're dealing with the masked persona. In retrospect it's clear, but in the moment when they're looking at it without the benefit of hindsight it's really easy to explain it away as something else.

...and that's if the signs are there. I'm reminded of the case of poor Kylie Freeman, who as a 9-10 year old girl was repeatedly abused by her police officer father. He made video tapes of the abuse which included BDSM scenarios, the works. He traded the videos with other pedophiles around the world. He used at least alcohol on her...I don't remember off hand if he ever used any other substance. This abuse went on for an extended period of time and it wasn't until some time later that she even mentioned anything had happened. When she did, her mother and step father immediately took action and her abusive scumbag of a father skipped the country and remained a fugitive for a very long time. The videos documenting Ms. Freeman's abuse are the most traded bits of child pornography in the world. Here was a case of truly horrific abuse and yet there were no obvious signs as the poor girl herself seems to have almost "shut down" mentally during the abuse as a defense mechanism.

One act of denial leads to more acts of denial. Perhaps not active denial in all cases where they cover things up, but often the more passive style which can be as simple as not really examining something that deserves examination. There are times in life where we see something and we have an urge to question it further, or even feel some sort of obligation to question it further. We may not even understand why we feel that way. Something doesn't "sit right" with it, etc. It's one thing to think about it in the context of a perfect stranger or someone we don't like...but someone we're on friendly terms with? Someone who we think we know? Somebody we've played golf with? Someone that's part of the PTA? Without mentally acknowledging it we can shake that feeling off and dismiss what doesn't "sit right" so very easily. It takes almost no effort for us to make the decision to look the other way. To ignore a warning sign because the prospect of where that sign leads is horrible and we don't want to face it because doing so will force us to confront something terrible.

...and, worse still, if we've ignored other signs in the past then following this one means we've actually participated in it on some level. Are you a bad person? Have you ever meant to hurt anyone? Of course you're not a bad person! You would never....

...and so the denial gets deeper as we develop a vested interest, even if only psychological, in not seeing the truth. Now what if we add to that simple human reaction public prestige? Money? Power? Do you think those things being at risk makes one any more inclined to see inconvenient truth? At Penn State people got 5 kinds of butthurt that they were pulling down Paterno's statue..and that after it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he helped cover up the actions of a serial child rapist in an effort to "protect" a damn football program. That was football. A silly sport...and yet people were so psychologically invested in their football fandom they refused to acknowledge the evil that was being done in the name of protecting that silly thing. What depths will they plumb for something that's actually important?

Almost nobody sets out to enable the rape of children. It's never really presented that way. It's never presented as take action A now or immediately thereafter watch a 9 year old get raped.

No, it's way more subtle than that. Way more insidious. You almost always have reason to doubt. You almost always have the opportunity for self interest, even if only psychological, to interfere with what you're seeing. You can always find a million reasons why you didn't see what you saw, or why what you saw wasn't really all that big a deal. It's easy. It's so very, very easy.

Lying is as much a part of human existence as breathing. Think about it: Does a child have to be taught how to lie? Absolutely not. They do it automatically as a defense mechanism. It's hard-wired into our nature to lie...and the person we lie to most of all is ourselves. It's very easy for us to do horrible things and be fully convinced that it's acceptable, or even morally correct for us to be doing it. Even if that "thing" we are doing is, technically, nothing in the face of an event where we should be doing something.

Why did they ignore Savile's actions?

Look really hard in the mirror and the answers should come up pretty quickly. We're all capable of it.

[Sparks2112]

I can personally vouch for a case where a child told one of their parents that abuse had taken place and was told "That didn't happen." Funny what lies people will believe as long as it's lies they're telling themselves.

[BaiHu]

Excellent post, as always. I think further discussion is warranted on the gray line of being a "busy body", amateur cop and slanderer versus inadvertently covering up or enabling a crime.

I spend an awful lot of time engaging my own rationales and calling myself a liar when I'm mulling an important decision over, but you bring up an important point as to "who" is lying to "who" and what is "who" trying to protect?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[BaiHu]

I can personally vouch for a case where a child told one of their parents that abuse had taken place and was told "That didn't happen." Funny what lies people will believe as long as it's lies they're telling themselves.

I unfortunately know of a story where the step father was sexually abusing a friend of mine when she was a child and the mother pulled the same denial. Eventually, when she got older, the mother began to suspect on her own and then threw him out-never pressing charges. Horrible situation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[ford.304]

It doesn't help anything that it's such a serious charge... you'd better be damn sure you see more than just 'signs.' No one wants to accidentally ruin someone's life, and that's essentially what will happen if you're ever accused - lose your job, possibly your family, possibly friends. Makes it even easier to rationalize away the little things.

It's a mess all around. I don't know a good way out of it

I had a friend whose step dad was abusing her. Her imprisoned father, who was *himself* an abuser (but not of her), was the first one who recognized the signs. (Mess up, yeah?) Her step father killed himself when he realized she was going to tell someone.

[TCinVA]

I think further discussion is warranted on the gray line of being a "busy body", amateur cop and slanderer versus inadvertently covering up or enabling a crime.

You definitely don't want to cry wolf, because the mere accusation can ruin a good person's life.

You also have to know that sometimes there isn't any outward sign.

All you really can do is keep an open mind and if something seems odd or unusual, question it critically. If there are kids around you care about, do some looking around for training materials on spotting abuse. Beware of false positives, but at least that will help you have some idea of what to look for.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

It's simple human nature.

Is there someone in your life you look up to? Someone you regard as a friend? Someone you think you know?

What if I told you they got off raping kids? Would you believe me? What if I pointed to eccentric and odd behavior? You might agree it was eccentric, but would you see it as sinister? As signs of a predator? Probably not. At least not at first.

The simple truth of human nature is that we don't like to believe bad things about people we know, or people we think we know. (We like to think we know celebrities) Last time I looked at statistics, the majority of children that were abused were being abused by people they knew and that their family trusted. There were always signs...but those signs were not the same thing as actually seeing the act take place. The serial abusers are sophisticated predators who do a superb job of wearing a mask in public to hide the monster within. Little things that turn out to have been giant red flags aren't quite so obvious in the moment when you're dealing with the masked persona. In retrospect it's clear, but in the moment when they're looking at it without the benefit of hindsight it's really easy to explain it away as something else.

...and that's if the signs are there. I'm reminded of the case of poor Kylie Freeman, who as a 9-10 year old girl was repeatedly abused by her police officer father. He made video tapes of the abuse which included BDSM scenarios, the works. He traded the videos with other pedophiles around the world. He used at least alcohol on her...I don't remember off hand if he ever used any other substance. This abuse went on for an extended period of time and it wasn't until some time later that she even mentioned anything had happened. When she did, her mother and step father immediately took action and her abusive scumbag of a father skipped the country and remained a fugitive for a very long time. The videos documenting Ms. Freeman's abuse are the most traded bits of child pornography in the world. Here was a case of truly horrific abuse and yet there were no obvious signs as the poor girl herself seems to have almost "shut down" mentally during the abuse as a defense mechanism.

One act of denial leads to more acts of denial. Perhaps not active denial in all cases where they cover things up, but often the more passive style which can be as simple as not really examining something that deserves examination. There are times in life where we see something and we have an urge to question it further, or even feel some sort of obligation to question it further. We may not even understand why we feel that way. Something doesn't "sit right" with it, etc. It's one thing to think about it in the context of a perfect stranger or someone we don't like...but someone we're on friendly terms with? Someone who we think we know? Somebody we've played golf with? Someone that's part of the PTA? Without mentally acknowledging it we can shake that feeling off and dismiss what doesn't "sit right" so very easily. It takes almost no effort for us to make the decision to look the other way. To ignore a warning sign because the prospect of where that sign leads is horrible and we don't want to face it because doing so will force us to confront something terrible.

...and, worse still, if we've ignored other signs in the past then following this one means we've actually participated in it on some level. Are you a bad person? Have you ever meant to hurt anyone? Of course you're not a bad person! You would never....

...and so the denial gets deeper as we develop a vested interest, even if only psychological, in not seeing the truth. Now what if we add to that simple human reaction public prestige? Money? Power? Do you think those things being at risk makes one any more inclined to see inconvenient truth? At Penn State people got 5 kinds of butthurt that they were pulling down Paterno's statue..and that after it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he helped cover up the actions of a serial child rapist in an effort to "protect" a damn football program. That was football. A silly sport...and yet people were so psychologically invested in their football fandom they refused to acknowledge the evil that was being done in the name of protecting that silly thing. What depths will they plumb for something that's actually important?

Almost nobody sets out to enable the rape of children. It's never really presented that way. It's never presented as take action A now or immediately thereafter watch a 9 year old get raped.

No, it's way more subtle than that. Way more insidious. You almost always have reason to doubt. You almost always have the opportunity for self interest, even if only psychological, to interfere with what you're seeing. You can always find a million reasons why you didn't see what you saw, or why what you saw wasn't really all that big a deal. It's easy. It's so very, very easy.

Lying is as much a part of human existence as breathing. Think about it: Does a child have to be taught how to lie? Absolutely not. They do it automatically as a defense mechanism. It's hard-wired into our nature to lie...and the person we lie to most of all is ourselves. It's very easy for us to do horrible things and be fully convinced that it's acceptable, or even morally correct for us to be doing it. Even if that "thing" we are doing is, technically, nothing in the face of an event where we should be doing something.

Why did they ignore Savile's actions?

Look really hard in the mirror and the answers should come up pretty quickly. We're all capable of it.

Man, that is an excellent post.

[LHS]

TCinVA, that's one of the best analyses I've ever seen on the subject. You hit that one out of the park.

[Tamara]

Here's the commentary. I have to cut/paste a snippet of it in order for you to find it, b/c there is no direct link:

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