Merging Competition and Training

[JodyH]

Jason Falla and I talked about this some over dinner. He shoots competition, but he does set higher standards for himself when he competes. He will only accept hits in the A Zone. He admits that the really fast guys that shoot some C's finish higher, but he is unwilling to sacrifice good hits for speed.

That's my approach as well.
My other concession to reality is I only shoot from AIWB concealed, which excludes me from IDPA and forces me into IPSC Limited.
While this might cost me .5 on a stage or two, it's not a big enough disadvantage that I'm going to change my holster or carry position.
I can think of a whole lot of other areas to shave 2 seconds over the course of a match.

[John Ralston]

That's my approach as well.
My other concession to reality is I only shoot from AIWB concealed, which excludes me from IDPA and forces me into IPSC Limited.
While this might cost me .5 on a stage or two, it's not a big enough disadvantage that I'm going to change my holster or carry position.
I can think of a whole lot of other areas to shave 2 seconds over the course of a match.

I too shoot from my concealed IWB - run what you brung...

[jlw]

I find it interesting that not all but many of the known gunfight survivors consider competition an important part of their training program. The way I look at it is that I will shoot the stage as a tactically see fit. As long as it's safe and tactically sound if the RSO gives me a procedural so be it. I will work harder to over come the penalty and still try to place well. I won't sacrifice good tactics for gamesmanship.

I will never be any more than a club shooter and thats fine with me. I'm there to PUSH MYSELF not compete with the next guy.

Well said sir. That is exactly how I look at myself ... but it is a nice bonus when you beat the others.

rsa-otc,

I tell folks that I don't care where I finish as long as I beat VolGrad.

[Badfish25]

I like the competition part, it adds a different level of stress to shooting. I shoot what I carry, and try to make only A hits (although I think if that all you ever make you should try to speed it up some to push yourself).

The way I look at it is someone designed this stage with a certion way it should be shot, so if you go in and follow the rules, not only do you have to shoot well to win, but also have to think about what you are doing while shooting.

If it was not for IDPA I would be stuck on a square range most of the time, which will only take you so far.

[Chuck Haggard]

Agree 100%. Also, I think some subset of the people who shoot the match like it's tactical training use that an excuse for why they can't win.

To an extent.

Back when I was shooting USPSA locally I has severely hampered having to use my S&W 5906 duty pistol from my a level III holster and flapped mag pouches against even the limited guys running race rigs.

Then there is the whole issue of "tactics" and how the gamers handle that.

I didn't care since I was there to get time in with my duty gear.

Same-same with IDPA.

Pure shooting I do OK. I had never shot a classifier before until the other day, and shooting cold with my G17 from duty gear I was 7 seconds off of making Master, and I wasn't trying that hard to get there.

When running the courses of fire that are more "scenario" -ish during a match I often find myself not gaming the course for time. I get my hits, work from cover realistically, etc., but I refuse to do certain things for time, like run balls to the wall down a "hallway" just to get to the next shooting point so I can game my time.

I also shoot my actual carry guns from my actual carry gear, which I am shocked to find many IDPA guys don't.

[JodyH]

When running the courses of fire that are more "scenario" -ish during a match I often find myself not gaming the course for time. I get my hits, work from cover realistically, etc., but I refuse to do certain things for time, like run balls to the wall down a "hallway" just to get to the next shooting point so I can game my time.

Here's another issue on which I disagree with "tactical shooters" who disparage "gaming" a stage with fast movement.
What is realistic use of cover?
What is the optimal speed to go down a hallway?
The answer is "it depends".
It depends on the circumstances.
How fast will you be going down the hallway towards your children's room if you hear shooting? I damn sure won't be heel-toe slow walking.
What is the best way to slice cover?
Again, it depends.
It depends on whether you are sneak and peeking or doing a dynamic entry.
One you'll slice slow, the other you'll be doing an explosive entry.
I think of IPSC and IDPA as dynamic shooting where speed is critical.
You can practice sneak and peek at your house dry or at the range on training day.
Don't fall into the trap of "tactical = slow" because it doesn't.
Tactics should fit the situation and some situations demand speed.

[Slavex]

I shoot a lot of competitions mostly IPSC and I do a lot of FoF training with various PDs. I have yet to enter a room or hallway with the same carefree abandon I do in IPSC when I have people shooting back at me, or if I'm the good guy, a room with hostages in it as well as bad guys. Same as I don't do sneak and peeks in IPSC although I do slice corners, doors and ports similarly. IDPA and IPSC are games, I approach them as such.

[rsa-otc]

rsa-otc,

I tell folks that I don't care where I finish as long as I beat VolGrad.

If truth be told there is enough testosterone in this old body to still look at the scores and when I see that I won my class or got most accurate pump my fist and say "YES".

But mostly I only look at the scores to see if I'm improving compared to the rest.

[Chuck Haggard]

Don't fall into the trap of "tactical = slow" because it doesn't.

I concur with what you are saying, but unless you are trying to outrun a tsunami, running balls-to-the-wall is almost always not a good idea.

On my side "job" we spend a time on the barricade field FoF during low-light and active-shooter instructor classes getting people to stop running, among other things.

Doing a full speed 3-5 second rush as part of an infantry fire-and-maneuver attack is significantly different than working a tactical problem by yourself with a pistol.

Having attended, among other incidents of course, two active shooters during the course of my career, I "get" that speed can often be critical, but reading the right timing of the response to the situation is a rather important skill to have.

They way I see almost every IDPA guy work barricades and cover, or how they move during a match, would ensure they ended a FoF evolution absolutely covered in paint.

[JodyH]

Like I said, situational dependent.
If I hear the shit going down in my child's bedroom or in the room where my wife is, I'm full speed and what happens happens, but I'm neutralizing the threat NOW.
If I'm sitting in my office at work and shooting starts in the lobby my speed is going to be more methodical.

Full speed barricade work is a great skill to have. It increases the speed at which you identify and engage targets which will carry over into slower pie slicing.

I think it would be very interesting to take a skilled competition shooter who has a tactical background and run some FoF drills in a 360 environment at varying speeds.