Ultralight 223 or 9mm Carbine

[TGS]

Not sure how rigid your caliber requirements are (9mm or .223), but how about an M1 carbine? Seems like the surplus ones still turn up now and then (or at least they did a few weeks ago), as well as the new Auto-Ordnance/Kahr ones (don't know about their quality though).

M1 Carbines are banned by name in NJ, unfortunately. Otherwise, it would be in the running.

I have a half dozen Ruger mini-14 magazines, but no mini. If the "evil characteristics" definition were reduced by one, a mini might look better?

Whatcha' mean? FWIW, unlike the M1 Carbine, the Mini-14 is legal here. Go figure.

[Joe in PNG]

Didn't Ruger also make a 9mm semiautomatic that's kind of similar to a Camp Carbine? The PC 9, if I remember correctly.

[Odin Bravo One]

M1 Carbine, is also really snappy. Of course, since it is no bueno in NJ, it's a non-starter. But for others considering it for similar circumstances, recoil sensitivity would have the be carefully evaluated. What we consider "nominal" or "easily controlled" often times is not when dealing with shooters with disabilities.

If a .357 carbine is available, it is worth a test drive with some .38's.

[R.M.T.]

+1 for .357 carbine. Choose her loads carefully, we chronographed some of the federal 357B which is a 125 hollow point and it was going 1850 fps out of an 18 inch barrel. Now I would have to defer to Doc on where that would fragment on impact.

[nalesq]

What we consider "nominal" or "easily controlled" often times is not when dealing with shooters with disabilities.

The Sub-2000 falls into the above category, in my opinion, because the charging handle is tiny and awkwardly located and the recoil spring is rather stiff. It's a bit kicky as well, for someone unaccustomed to recoil.

Pistol-caliber lever-action carbines are fun and easy to actually shoot, but it takes a bit of training to be able to decock one safely on demand, especially under stress. There is also the matter of having to work the lever vigorously enough and consistently enough to cycle the weapon reliably. Again, doable with sufficient training, but perhaps not as easy to deal with as a semi-auto of some kind. I also don't know of an easy way to mount a light to a lever-action carbine, which I would want for a defensive shoulder-fired weapon.

If I wanted to give someone who was not going to train a whole lot some kind of lightweight shoulder-fired weapon that was as easy to deal with as possible, and fun and cheap to shoot (thereby encouraging at least some periodic training), I think it might be some kind of .22LR AR-ish carbine, with a mounted laser/light activated simply by gripping the fore-end properly.

[JHC]

My 5.5 lb Rossi .357, with magnum loads bit in recoil worse than my 1894 with some .44 magnum loads. Could just be the 1894 has a better stock; its been soooo many years since I shot a .357 Marlin I can't recall. But IIRC .357 Marlins are known for more feeding picky-ness than the .44. And especially with shorter .38 specials. But the recoil is really soft with those.

[Archimagirus]

I realize this is a very out of the box suggestion, but what about a Remington 7615 pump action? With the pistol grip and the ability to take AR mags, I would think a pump action would be easier for her to work than a lever action. Add an Inidine Recoil buffer to it, and I would imagine recoil would be nil. And commence to tearing this suggestion apart.....NOW!

ETA: Having discussed this in another thread, I am somewhat recoil sensitive myself. I added the aforementioned Inidine buffer to an 870 and it works like gang busters. I have not had a chance to put a lot of rounds through it yet, but at least initially, it really soaks up the recoil.

[Cacafuego]

Saiga .410?
If a .22 is in the running and cost is an issue. why not a 10/22?

[Odin Bravo One]

I realize this is a very out of the box suggestion, but what about a Remington 7615 pump action? With the pistol grip and the ability to take AR mags, I would think a pump action would be easier for her to work than a lever action. Add an Inidine Recoil buffer to it, and I would imagine recoil would be nil. And commence to tearing this suggestion apart.....NOW!

ETA: Having discussed this in another thread, I am somewhat recoil sensitive myself. I added the aforementioned Inidine buffer to an 870 and it works like gang busters. I have not had a chance to put a lot of rounds through it yet, but at least initially, it really soaks up the recoil.

Walking in empty at 7 lbs..........2 (probably important) lbs over the OP's weight requirement. Add ammo........also looking at length of pull issues, and length of action. Examining the disability from a non-medical professional point of view, I think the OP is on the right track with the requirements. 7615 doesn't fit. Too long, too heavy, too much action to cycle for this type of condition.

So back to the question.........what does fit?

Hmmmmmmmm

ETA...........MP5? It would have to be loaded prior to any indication of pending festivities, but can be safely stored in Condition 1. It is relatively light, and can be made lighter. Rails are available for lights, lasers, optics. Recoil is tame by most standards. Doesn't require to be firmly held to avoid malfunctions. History of high reliability. High capacity magazines available.

But alas........they are expensive, even in non-NFA configurations.

[TGS]

Re: pump action rifle. I actually did consider that......I would think a pump action rifle in 223-243 would be a better option than a lever gun. Unfortunately, as Sean mentioned, they're too heavy from what I'm seeing. If they came in 22" barrels but were only 6lbs, that wouldn't be a problem as I have the means to cut and recrown a barrel. FWIW, if it's shooting a handgun cartridge, I see no reason to buy a lever-action over a semi-auto like a Beretta Cx4 or HK94 clone. Well, except for the whole HK94 clone price-tag. And, frankly, if I buy someone an HK94 clone, I'm probably going to steal it often enough that it wouldn't be providing them much service.

Re: ".22 being in the running." Well, I wasn't considering that in the original post. The thing is...if an AR15 style rifle is in the running, then why not get a .223 instead of a 22? You could say price, but a similar weight 223 from DPMS costs only $100 more (normal pricing..but it's not like AR styled 22s are easy to get right now, either). Now, you might think, "DPMS?! No Way!" And that would be valid in the context of DPMS vs BCM/DD/Colt/Noveske, but I fail to see how an AR styled .22 is going to be such a better choice than a DPMS in terms of quality or reliability being they're not subjected to the rigors of BCM/DD/Noveske/Colt, either.

So, what I'm saying is that if we're down to considering an AR styled 22, I wouldn't see why a lightweight, cheap DPMS wouldn't be considered as well since we've already settled on a standard lower than Colt/Noveske/DD/BCM as it is. I could stake the gas key and castle nut myself, and I don't imagine the parts materiel and overgassed system would be a problem being it's a light use gun and not expected to last tens of thousands of rounds. It's a shame that availability is a problem. A $459 BCM upper with the barrel turned to .55", on top of a Cav Arms lower could be a good cheap LW build. Or, maybe a S&W M&P Sport with a .55" bbl on top of a Cav Arms lower. Thoughts on a budget lightweight AR15 build?

Re: Saiga-410.... If that weight range were applicable, then this thread wouldn't exist.

A 20ga pump or semi could be a very good choice as was mentioned. I grew up hunting with a 20ga SxS, but for the life of me I can't remember what its recoil was like. I have a Knoxx CompStock on the way for my Mossberg 500 12ga. The CompStock, in addition to a 20ga, might be a great combo. We'll see when I get it set up.