Aimpoint Recommendations

[JV_]

In the next 2 or 3 months, I'll need to pickup an Aimpoint. I don't know squat about them, so I'm not sure what unit would make the most sense. I want the most bang for my buck, without wasting money on features that civilians don't need.

Micro or Regular?
2 or 4 MOA?
I don't need NV compatibility.
Is the durability the same between the micro and regular units?
Is there a big redesign coming anytime soon, like with the RMR improvements, where I should wait a bit to buy one?
Do I need to be concerned with counterfeit units?


Thanks.

[GJM]

Unless, you can hook up a better deal through PF friends, I would get an Aimpoint PRO thru Larue with one of their mounts. I think the PRO is a very good value, has a 2 moa dot, and a bigger tube than the T1.The alternative for less weight, but a smaller tube, would be a 2 moa T1/H1.

[JMS]

In the next 2 or 3 months, I'll need to pickup an Aimpoint. I don't know squat about them, so I'm not sure what unit would make the most sense. I want the most bang for my buck, without wasting money on features that civilians don't need.

Micro or Regular? -Yes!
2 or 4 MOA? -No viable difference if used stand-alone, some merit to getting 2MOA if intenting to use with a magnifier.
I don't need NV compatibility. -Then, if you end up getting a Comp-series device, stick to the ML variants, vice the M. For Micros, the H1 instead of the T1.
Is the durability the same between the micro and regular units? -Essentially, but the Comp M4/M4S is the most tank-like of them all.
Is there a big redesign coming anytime soon, like with the RMR improvements, where I should wait a bit to buy one? -No.
Do I need to be concerned with counterfeit units? -Not if you simply stick with a reliable vendor. Even the marketplace of one of the....and I hesitate to use this as definitive..."reputable" forums is not likely.

Thanks.

Up front, if you want to do a side-by-side taste-test of a Micro and a Comp, Gun1 has a Comp ML3 MOA on it, Gun2 has an H1 (I don't need NVG capability, nor the ability to waterproof against having to deploy from a sub's torpedo tube, either). Leme know...

Micro vs. Comp - there are some that will tell you that the Comp-series devices are the way to go because they offer greater FOV....which completely bakes my noodle, as I don't know how that impacts an RDS being correctly used with both eyes open. I've chalked it up to the fact that some folks' eyes simply work differently. For somebody afflicted in such a way that the body of the optic provides some occlusion, greater FOV of the Comp-series would be the way to go.

The one such impact that makes the most sense to me comes from those that speak to it from the standpoint of unconventional positions, where one can't cheek the gun in the same consistent manner as standing/kneeling/sitting/prone. Having a greater diameter of body in which to pick up the dot when you're all scruntched up behind the gun in some Level 3 Kama Sutra thingamabob makes sense. I can't replicate that with either Comp or Micro, never had a problem with it, but that could simply be that I've not gotten shoehorned into the right kind of contortion to need it.

Micros are smaller and lighter. Duh.

Comps require a flathead screwdriver or similar to adjust. Micros have a specific adjuster tool built into the outside of the cap (and the caps are TINY, could be easily lost), and come with a specific, separate tool.

Bear in mind, all battery-life proclaimations are hinged upon the specific device being set to just over it's middle intensity. Example, Comp C3 = 5yrs at room temp, at setting 7 of 10. (OFF is 1 of 10). If you stick it at setting 9 in 120* weather, and the battery goes TU, it's yer own damned fault, not a lie on Aimpoint's part.

Positives/negatives of the whole absolute/lower-1/3 cowitness is spoken to elsewhere...

Your greatest value of Aimpoint will be one of two things:
1) Aimpoint PRO. For around $400, you'll get a 2MOA dot and a 3yr battery life, NVG capable. The QRP II mount it comes with isn't a bad mount, but isn't the greatest, either. Good idea to shim with a layer of tin foil or two on the rail. You can swap out to another mount (Larue, Bobro, American Defense), but that's extra $$.

2) Aimpoint Comp C3 with the mount of your choice. 2MOA dot, 5yr battery life, not NVG capable. About $400 +/- for the device, add +/-$100 for a mount.

I think #2 is the greater value, because ratcheting torsion knobs on rail interfaces piss me off and the battery life appeals to me.

RE: Micros.

The ones listed as 4MOA....aren't. What you have is the exact same emitter as in a Comp-series optic, put into a shorter body, so it "prints" differently. A 4MOA Micro is actually about 3.3MOA.

They have 2MOA Micros, now, so that's not a true 2MOA; it's smaller.

Of the two I have, I honestly prefer the H1, but there's nothing wrong with the ML3, so I've not put forth the effort to switch.

EDIT: Uhh...on which pistol are you planning on EDC-ing an Aimpoint....?

[JConn]

I know plenty of people can say this, but just let me know if you want to try a t1, I'll bring it to the range one of these days.

[Dagga Boy]

For your reading pleasure.....Just my observations.


APPLICATIONS FOR AIMPOINT SIGHTS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT
By Darryl Bolke
Aimpoint L/E Pro Staff

Aimpoint sights provide law enforcement officers with an optic that is near perfect for police duty use. The combination of being able to be always left “on” due to huge battery life, incredible ruggedness and a system that allows for both eyes open and threat focus while allowing for surgical shooting in all lighting conditions and under adverse conditions. These sights are all essentially parallax free and allow a shooter to place accurate shots on target without a perfect cheek weld. Anywhere the shooter sees the dot, a round can be placed into that spot. This is critical for use with body armor, gas masks, and shooting from asymmetric positions common in law enforcement. There are numerous models of sights made by Aimpoint. The following models are the best fit for use by police officers. They each have particular pros and cons and these will be reviewed by model to allow for correct selection of the best sight for an individual or agency’s needs.

The COMP M4:
Without a doubt, the Comp M4 is the finest red dot sight ever manufactured to date. It was built to withstand the worst environmental conditions and to survive in the worst possible combat conditions. The sight is fully armored around critical adjustment components. Like all Aimpoint sights, it uses an LED illuminator inside the optic that is incredibly rugged and is almost indestructible. The intensity adjustment knob has extensive play in it to allow for massive impacts without failure. It is equipped from the factory with a very robust QRP 2 mount that is screwed into the sight from the bottom. This eliminates the need for a ring to mount the optic. The QRP 2 cannot be “over” or “under” torque onto a rail. Like all the sights in this overview, the Comp M4 uses all mechanical adjustments that are unaffected by temperature or impact. The Comp M4 utilizes a 2 MOA dot that is capable of being utilized with night vision devices in its initial infa-red settings, and visible with the naked eye in its higher settings, up to a high intensity visible setting for extremely bright conditions. A single AA battery will last 80,000 hours on setting 12 (of 16) and 100,000 hours with a lithium AA. The only “cons” of the Comp M4 is it is a larger and heavier sight and is more expensive than any of the other recommended L/E sights.
I look at the Comp M4 as being ideal for two types of L/E customers. For an agency looking to adopt a sight with no clear-cut timeline for future replacement, and they will be placed on issued armory guns. In this case the agency should purchase a sight that will still be a state of the art optic for many years to come, and will have the ability to remain fully functional even when subjected to long term use and abuse. The other ideal L/E user for the Comp M4 is by high round count special operations users who subject their weapons platforms to much more use and abuse than most officers and who have to depend on their optic to maintain zero and function even when subjected to extreme abuse in both training and real world applications. This would also include those who operate in extreme weather conditions or environmental conditions (e.g. maritime dive teams, lab teams, or those deploying in off-road vehicles in extreme conditions, and when deployed from aircraft). The Comp M4 will reliably function in all extreme situations.
Two variants of the Comp M4 are available. The Comp M4 has the battery compartment on the top in the 1 o’clock position while the Comp M4S has the battery compartment located at the 5 o’clock position. I have found that those who want to lower the profile of the sight when viewed by the operator that the Comp M4S is a good option. For those who run the sight in conjunction with a 3X Magnifier or other accessories, they will find it is easier to adjust the intensity of the dot to match lighting conditions is easier with the Comp M4.
The Comp M4 is the current U.S. Army Close Combat Optical sight. It is also in use with military units all around the world. With its military pedigree and because it was designed from the ground up as a military sight, it is designed to work in temperature ranges from -40 degrees to +160 degrees. It is submersible to 150 ft., and its objective lens and the sight body fully anti reflective coated.
For an example of the ruggedness of the Comp M4 is my personal demo sight. I purchased a Comp M4 right after they were released. The sight is still on with the first installed battery, and it has been thrown across asphalt and concrete during demos with no loss of zero or turning off over 989 times without fail of the sight, or any parts breakage from the sight itself.

The Micro Series:
The Aimpoint Micro sights (T1 and H1) are recent developments to the previous Aimpoint military sights that have essentially been shrunk to a very small size. They are a third of the weight of a Comp M4 and much smaller in size. The T1 is the military variant while the H1 lacks some of the military grade features of the T1 at a reduced cost. Both sights will run for 50,000 hours of continuous operation at setting 8 (of 12). The biggest differences in the T1 to H1 are that the T1 has Night vision capability (first 4 settings), is submersible to 80 ft. (15 ft. for the H1) and the lens coatings on the objective lens. For most line police officers the H1 is a more than capable sight. For those working in special operations within the L/E community the T1 is an excellent sight. The biggest benefit is size and weight. These sights can be run on handguns, carbines, rifles, shotguns and sub machine guns. They can be adapted to higher power precision optics to provide close quarter capability. They can be used in conjunction with mid range optics (ACOG) to provide a very viable system to engage both indoor and close range threats and to use the other optics for longer shots and range finding. Anytime weight is concerned or size is an issue (mounting on shotguns, sub-guns, AK 47 series, and pistols), the Micros are outstanding. They are fairly rugged and can be abused well past what most will ever subject a sight to, but they are not as armored as the Comp M4. Like the Comp M4, the do not use a ring to mount but are instead mounted via small screws in the bottom of the sight.
The only negatives of this sight are the small exposed adjustment caps for windage and elevation and the lack of a quick access lens cover (rubber bikini covers are included). Some people concern themselves about the small tube. In actual use the tube “ghosts” out of the shooters vision and only the dot is seen over the target. This is, in actuality, a positive.
The recent release of a 2 MOA dot H1 and T1 is a positive as well. The LED emitter on the Micro sights is the same as the larger sights. Being it is shot onto a lens that is closer than the larger sights, the 2 MOA emitter ends up being a 3.4 MOA dot that Aimpoint lists as a 4 MOA. For use on pistols, sub guns, shot guns, and AK’s, the larger dot is just fine, and often preferred. The naked eye is really not able to distinguish the dot sizes between 3.4 and 2 MOA, especially when the intensity of the dot is variable via the control knob. Where the new 2 MOA dot sight is an improvement is when used in conjunction with add on optical enhancements like a 3X magnifier or night vision and thermal devices.
The Micro sight is an outstanding sight for any application. It is especially a good idea for those who want to run the same sight on all of their different firearms so they are always used to looking at the same optic.

The PRO sight.
The Patrol Rifle Optic is especially geared towards police use. It is essentially the former worldly accepted military sight that has been modified for L/E use. The biggest problem with the previous “M” series 30mm tube sights was the need to use a ring to mount them. Aimpoint had very little (or no) control over what rings were used, who was mounting the sights, and how they were mounted. The new PRO takes the proven 30mm tube sight with a 2MOA dot, NVG capability, dive able to 80ft. and anti reflex coated, and has paired that sight with the outstanding QRP2 mount from the Comp M4. A ring is used, but it is made by Aimpoint, and mounted at the factory. It is ready to be bolted onto a patrol rifle right out of the box (although I would recommend removing the two screws from the bottom of the sight and loctiting them into place with the appropriate height spacer). Aimpoint uses a clear lens cover in the rear so that the sight can be used as an occluded-eye sight if the front cover is left up when deployed in an emergency (this also is used to train new operators on shooting with both eyes open). Battery life is listed as three years to encourage battery changes at a regular bi-annual interval for guns that will likely be carried inside vehicles with the sights left on in varied temperature conditions and with batteries of unknown origin.
The best part about the PRO optic is the price. At a full retail price of under $450 (and sold to L/E for far less), the PRO is a great buy with a ton of capability and proven battlefield level reliability at a very affordable price. It offers the most bang for the buck of any optic on the market. For any customer concerned about price, or working within strict budgets, the PRO optic is the answer. While it lacks the size advantage of the Micro, and the armoring of the M4, it has the same performance capability at a greatly reduced price point.
3X magnifier:
Aimpoints 3X magnifier is a great addition to any patrol rifle. It can be used in conjunction with any of the above sights to provide better observation capability to better identify or locate targets and threats at farther distances. They can also be removed and used as a stand alone monocular for observation of objects that do not justify having a firearm pointed at it. Aimpoint uses very high quality European glass in its magnifiers and it has adjustment screws to center your red dot in the middle of the optic. You will get some parallax when using the magnifier in the field.

Other issues:
Some things that often come up during discussions of red dot sights are also easily addressed.
“The dot looks like and asterisk or a coma” –This is an issue for anyone with an astigmatism. This is an eye problem and not a sight problem. The sight is quite shootable even if the dot doesn’t look perfectly round and precise. Shooters with astigmatism’s can do two things to alleviate the problem. First is to go to their optometrist with their sight and get corrective lenses made to alleviate the problem, or to shoot the sight through a small rear aperture iron sight. I have an astigmatism and have been able to shoot my Aimpoints without issue or corrective lenses without issue.
“Turning the sight off”-DO NOT TURN THEM off on a working gun. Because of the way LED’s work, the batteries will last longer if the sight is simply left on. It takes more power to turn the sight on and off than to simply leave them on. For those really concerned about maximizing battery life, just turn the sight to its lowest setting but not off.
“You need a reticule to lead moving targets” –This is simply fantasy. In the real world, bad guys don’t move where you “will” them. Unless it is a military sniper working an ambush shot, this is not reality. The reality is that you need to drag the sight through the moving target from where the target has been and then press the trigger as the dot gets to the front of the target. This way your gun is moving with the target from a known point and is a more realistic way to “lead” a mover.

[Odin Bravo One]

Comp M3 is pure bomb proof. Fact.

Comp M4 is a great optic. But I was not a fan of the mount that comes with it. Still, it has a lot of very redeeming qualities.

H-1 will suffice for the majority of the shooting population over a T-1.

T-1 however has magical powers imbued into it at the factory, and as such, is superior to all other RDS optics in this realm.


I have phased out all other RDS optics with T-1's. Mostly 4 MOA, which as previously mentioned, it as a wee bit under 4 MOA. I have one of the original 2 MOA's, and a couple of production 2 MOA's. I can make a 4 MOA T-1 appear to be a 2 MOA, and vice versa. For practical purposes, at carbine ranges, I have yet to see a difference between the two on the range. That said, if they are the same price, I prefer the 2 MOA dot, but I prefer smaller dots on all of my RDS's, including the little guys on my pistols.

I probably have a spare or six lying around, so if you want, I can bring you a loaner to play with later this month.

[Kyle Reese]

I love my T 1's....

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[JV_]

Very detailed and helpful feedback - thanks guys!

[LittleLebowski]

I have an H1 and Pro you can try.

[Kyle Reese]

You can borrow my Knight's SR15 with T-1 if you like.