Pure speed out of holster

[Jay Cunningham]

Several years ago, I heard Mike Panone lecture. When discussing draw stroke, he related that he had run some "experiments" when he was training the FAMs. Shooters would be blind folded and have to solve whatever problem they confronted. When the target was placed extremely close, the shooters would automatically keep the gun back and use a spontaneous retention position. Based on these observations, Panone was advocated a more traditional 45 degree draw since the dedicated retention positions weren't necessary in his experience.

Interesting data point. Of course there are others who promote a tight & high (for lack of a better term) draw stroke precisely because they've seen people repeatedly drive their guns out to full extension whilst in an FUT.

Lots of smart, experienced guys on either side of the argument. Like I said, could be a whole separate thread.

[Mr_White]

I'm working on a little video trying to show a couple of things that are under discussion here. I hope to have it up sometime tomorrow if the camera cooperated.

[NickA]

I think this discussion sometimes gets missed when people talk past each other. In fact, it could easily be it's whole own thread.

IIRC there was a big 'ol mega thread about it, when Todd was still active.

[Jay Cunningham]

IIRC there was a big 'ol mega thread about it, when Todd was still active.

That happens a lot.

[NickA]

That happens a lot.

Was probably 30 pages, 20 of which were posts by GJM, nyeti and Todd, and the rest about straw men, breastfeeding, the yeti, and minimum wage. Ya know, typical old school PF technique thread ;-)

[John Hearne]

Interesting data point. Of course there are others who promote a tight & high (for lack of a better term) draw stroke precisely because they've seen people repeatedly drive their guns out to full extension whilst in an FUT. ... Lots of smart, experienced guys on either side of the argument. Like I said, could be a whole separate thread.

It is an interesting problem. I suspect that more skilled and seasoned folks might be able to execute the "natural retention" much more than the new shooter. I still use and teach a four count draw stroke and emphasize picking up the sights as the gun goes out. But, I did think it was an interesting observation.

[Mr_White]

I made a little video for this draw discussion and since I haven't been thinking as much about the draw for a while.

The attempt here is to show differences in draw path and ultimately time for what I am calling:

Classic Pressout (my attempt at executing TLG's method)

Muzzle-Level Pressout (same thing but trying to avoid the muzzle-tilt)

Direct Draw (basically bringing the gun straight from the holster to its final position, though in my case the gun comes high enough that it is pretty close to the good old 4-count draw with position 2 removed because of AIWB)

Take the times shown with a grain of salt – I only included one rep of each live fire variation, so no robust average on this. The direct draw to the upper A is a particularly good rep. Figure on that one usually taking another tenth or so. But the basic progression of times seems to hold for me. Each rep on the video is a hit to the specified target – either upper or lower A as noted in the video.

[GJM]

Like!!

[Sheep Have Wool]

Excellent reference, OAK.

[joshs]

Direct Draw (basically bringing the gun straight from the holster to its final position, though in my case the gun comes high enough that it is pretty close to the good old 4-count draw with position 2 removed because of AIWB)

Thanks dude, this is definitely clearer with video. My draw looks pretty similar to this, except much slower. I just don't call it "direct" because of how high the gun comes before going forward, which I think is partly a function of AIWB.