Establishing Handgun Time Constraints

[ST911]

Firearms skill assessments and qualification courses of fire include a fixed period of time, par time, in which the stage or skill must be executed. In developing those times, is there a common agreement on the amount that is valid, reasonable, or ideal for each sub-skill associated? I.e. if a drill includes a certain skill, a certain amount of time is necessary.

In reviewing numerous courses of fire designed to test basic minimal law enforcement competencies, trends in timing emerge. They are most commonly:

• A presentation from a ready position: +1 second
• A presentation from a secured duty holster: +1-1.5 seconds
• A presentation from concealment: +1-1.5 seconds
• A slide-lock reload: +2 seconds
• A tactical reload: +3-5 seconds
• Each round fired 0-10yds: +1-1.5 seconds
• Each round fired 11-25yds: +3-5 seconds
• A change to the shooting position: +2-3 seconds
• Any of the above from support side: Above, +1-3 seconds

Qualification and testing is not a gunfight, but a minimum standard of competency must be assessed. The standard has to be realistic both in achievement and result though, as well as defensible.

Are these numbers reasonable? In that approximate range, do they constitute a de facto standard for course design?

[MikeyC]

Judging by the participation in a recent security class, it's about all you're going to get. The max range was 15 yds on the ICE CoF, and we still had 4 out of 11 students not complete the course. 2 were ejected for safety violations, and 2 couldn't meet the time or accuracy requirements.
It was an interesting situation to me because I've been to enough KSTG matches to know how good I'm not, however, as the only "gun guy" in the class I could easily score in the top portion of the class. I think the requirements you pointed out are about the most you're going to get out of non-dedicated shooters required to carry a gun. The problem isn't necessarily the time requirements as it is the lack of commitment you;re getting from the candidates that you're putting through the system.

[CCT125US]

You would also need to include size of target along with distance for each stage / requirement. Big time difference between COM verse 2" circle.

[ST911]

You would also need to include size of target along with distance for each stage / requirement. Big time difference between COM verse 2" circle.

Target size is secondary to the discussion, but certainly, tighter targets need more time. For purposes of this discussion though, consider only larger LE humanoid targets such as those on B21s, Qs, TQ 15s and 19s, etc.

[GJM]

Rogers school par time to an eight inch circle at 7 yards from extended ready is .5 second. If I never had a slide lock reload slower than 2.0, I would be pleased.

[JHC]

Rogers school par time to an eight inch circle at 7 yards from extended ready is .5 second. If I never had a slide lock reload slower than 2.0, I would be pleased.

To GJM's point about the 2.0 slide lock reload - if that is measured like we do on a timer from aimed shot to aimed A zone hit 2nd shot - I think 2 seconds from duty mag carriers sounds a little aggressive as an agency standard. But I've got no agency experience so take that with a lot of salt. Most of the duty rig shooting I've been around has been a lot of shooting with a fellow in his LE duty gear and then with the duty gear prescribed by the contracts he works supporting a Federal contract OCONUS and that gear includes magazine carriers secured with a velcro strap. This colors my thinking about the 2 second slide lock reload shot to shot.

How many level retention on the holster?

[John Hearne]

Those times are a bit hopeful. I know of no uniform LE agency that expects a 1-1.5 second draw. Very few COF even have just one shot. The FAM COF has single shots and they're 1.65 seconds.

Our COF, which is on the harder side of non-SWAT LE courses, is as follows:
3 yds - draw and fire 3 rds in 3 sec.
7 yds - draw and fire 2 rds in 3 sec.
7 yds - support hand only, weapon already in hand, 2 rds in 3 sec.
15 yds - draw, move to low cover, fire 3 rds in 6 sec.
15 yds - aimed in, from low cover, 3 rds in 4 sec.
25 yds - draw, move to strong side barricade , fire 3 rds in 8 sec.
25 yds - from ready on support side of barricade, 2 rds in 5 sec.
25 yds - from strong side low cover, 1 rd in 3 sec.

Target is FLETC Transtar - 4 or 5 ring scored as a hit, 21/30 to pass.

[JV_]

The FAM COF has single shots and they're 1.65 seconds.

Didn't they get rid of this requirement?
It was from concealment - right?

[John Hearne]

Didn't they get rid of this requirement?
It was from concealment - right?

They got rid of the old course as their qualification standard and now require a higher score on the standard FLETC course. They still shoot it as an "advanced" course.

[ST911]

Those times are a bit hopeful. I know of no uniform LE agency that expects a 1-1.5 second draw. Very few COF even have just one shot. The FAM COF has single shots and they're 1.65 seconds.

Thanks for jumping in, John. Let me clarify a bit...

The presentation time is just the time factor for the starting position. 1-1.5 sec to be ready to go to the next skill execution (discharge of shot) from the specified position. Trying to calculate what is a norm for minimums to accomplish each step in the process.

In the COF you post John, it might break down like this...

3 yds - draw and fire 3 rds in 3 sec. <-- ~1-1.5 presentation, 1 round to fire, 2-2.5 sec total. About what you factor.

The balance of your course isn't too far off. (I like that COF, BTW.)

All this to answer the question(s)... How are we arriving at the times we assign to certain stages? Are those times valid?

On the FAM TPC, the 1.65 / 3.30 standard is attainable, but tighter than most are capable of at the levels they prefer to train at.

I hope that makes a little more sense. I appreciate the dialogue and thoughts of all.