Hot or Cold?

[ToddG]

It's a fact that the majority of AD's happen while loading or unloading a gun.

I agree with this.

I worry more about 100 unknown people constantly loading and unloading all day long.

I would as well were they doing it independently without supervision. But at matches, they're doing it with someone literally on top of them controlling muzzle direction, etc. An accident that occurs while loading/unloading while facing the berm isn't fractionally as bad as one that occurs behind the firing line facing God-knows-where.

Add in the fact that the majority of "accidents" happen with "unloaded" firearms and the lax attitudes an "unloaded" gun encourage and I wouldn't be opposed to running a hot range.

As you know, I always run hot ranges in class. But I've got a lot more immediate control over the dozen people on my range than a MD has over the 100+ people who may be at a match. Paying $400+ for a class also self-selects a more experienced and safe population than paying $20 for a match.

I love the idea of a hot range for competition in concept, but in practice there are too many potential pitfalls when it comes to the folks who walk off the bay and find themselves dealing simultaneously with a loaded gun and a toilet for the first time in their lives, etc. Not everyone who shows up to a match is there because he's a hardened, trained gunfighter.

[jar]

Agree 100% with Todd's point about classes being more self selecting. If I went to a defensive pistol class not targeted at beginners that wasn't a hot range, I'd feel mildly insulted. When I went to Front Sight, they ran the range cold for the first two days and hot for the second two. I thought this was eminently reasonable.

I think the safety rules for matches work well and I don't see any compelling reason to change them. The only GSW accidents I've ever heard about at matches are from holstering with the finger or some foreign object in the trigger guard. There's no real way to completely prevent those short of prohibiting hot guns in holsters which would be ridiculous. IMO the current USPSA rules go as safe as it is possible to go without affecting the actual stages.

To anyone who suggests hot ranges at matches, my first question is are you an SO/RO?

[JodyH]

To anyone who suggests hot ranges at matches, my first question is are you an SO/RO?

I RO twice a month 10 months out of the year, IPSC, IDPA and CCW matches.
I'm also the VP of our local action pistol club which hosts all the matches, which makes me the MD when the Pres. is unable to attend the match.

[JodyH]

While I don't go around championing a hot range for matches, it wouldn't bother me at all running a hot range once a clear set of rules and protocols are established.

[jetfire]

Issues with hot ranges for matches that I can see right away:

1. There are lots of people who shoot matches that don't carry - I don't really want those people wandering around with a loaded gun
2. Safe areas - how do you make sure a shooter is unloaded before entering the safe area?
3. Creates even more administrative gun handling - at the end of a stage if I'm at slidelock anyway, you're going to make me gas up my gun?

I think that having everyone unload and show clear in front of an SO is really the only logistically feasible way to run a match; to have people run around with hot guns creates either too many variables or a dictatorial match environment that would frankly suck to compete at.

[jar]

While I don't go around championing a hot range for matches, it wouldn't bother me at all running a hot range once a clear set of rules and protocols are established.

What would you set the rules/protocols as? Handling a gun any place/time you're not supposed to obviously needs a heavy penalty. At least a match DQ and probably more. How would you handle people who need/want to fiddle with their guns? What would the rule be for handling a dropped gun outside a CoF?

Do shooters get to check the condition of their gun before beginning a stage? When we tried a hot range at an IDPA club for a small invitation only match, it didn't save any time because everyone wanted to press check and double check their mag before a stage anyway.

(I'm not asking these questions to attack you in the slightest. Just because I don't think hot range matches are a great idea doesn't mean I can't participate in a discussion of how best to do it.)

[JodyH]

What would you set the rules/protocols as? Handling a gun any place/time you're not supposed to obviously needs a heavy penalty. At least a match DQ and probably more. How would you handle people who need/want to fiddle with their guns? What would the rule be for handling a dropped gun outside a CoF?

You "fiddle" with your gun at the safety table, same as on a cold range. Our safety table has it's own backstop.
Our club doesn't tolerate handling guns on the range whether they are hot or cold. It's an immediate DQ if you are seen handling (much less dropping) a gun anywhere but in a stage or at the safety table.

Do shooters get to check the condition of their gun before beginning a stage? When we tried a hot range at an IDPA club for a small invitation only match, it didn't save any time because everyone wanted to press check and double check their mag before a stage anyway.

Too bad. "Run what ya brung". You should have done a tactical reload at the end of the last stage.

(I'm not asking these questions to attack you in the slightest. Just because I don't think hot range matches are a great idea doesn't mean I can't participate in a discussion of how best to do it.)

answers in red above
Initial load up is under the direction of the RO just like a cold range.
Before holstering up after a stage the shooter does a tactical reload as their final act.
Final unload and clear is at the end of the last stage under RO supervision.

[jetfire]

So what happens if I decide I want to lubricate my gun in between stages? Do I need to find an SO to unload me and hold up the match? Or do I not do a tac-load at the end of the stage, which means I need to load up at the start of the next stage, thus holding up the match? What about stages that require downloaded or unloaded starts?

None of the above scenarios are uncommon or weird, it's all stuff that happens in regular club matches. It's also stuff that makes running a hot range basically unfeasible.

[JodyH]

So what happens if I decide I want to lubricate my gun in between stages? Do I need to find an SO to unload me and hold up the match? Or do I not do a tac-load at the end of the stage, which means I need to load up at the start of the next stage, thus holding up the match? What about stages that require downloaded or unloaded starts?

None of the above scenarios are uncommon or weird, it's all stuff that happens in regular club matches. It's also stuff that makes running a hot range basically unfeasible.

You can't win the "what if" game no matter the argument or what side you're on.
Hot and cold ranges both have their positives and negatives.

[jetfire]

Those aren't "what ifs" though, those are things that happen at every single club level match I've ever been to; if a hot range doesn't have an answer for that than it's not an option.

I like hot ranges in most cases, but I don't like them for matches. I think it creates too much of an administrative kludge for people to deal with and the issues far outweigh the benefits.