Why is that?Originally Posted by Tamara
I cannot tell you how relieved I was to go look at the rules and see that this doesn't actually involve drawing from the pocket.
If a proper holster is utilized, pocket draws are as safe as any other draw.
I've seen more fumbled draws and dropped guns from race holsters in IPSC matches than I have unsafe/fumbled draws from pocket carry in our local CCW matches in which we allow pocket carry (with MD/RO approval).
Because it seems a whole lot easier to point a gun at your thigh while fishing it out of a trouser pocket.
I mean, theoretically, a horizontal shoulder rig is no more dangerous than any other holster, right? So why aren't those allowed at matches?
How many pocket holsters do you own?
How familiar with pocket carry and draw techniques and safety are you personally?
I think the majority of your fears are based on ignorance (that's not a personal attack on you).
I run into a lot of competition shooters who think any form of concealed carry "looks" dangerous.
I see a lot of people who don't compete who think race holsters "look" dangerous.
To the average person who just owns a "house gun", the act of drawing a pistol and "running around" with it looks dangerous. But we as competitors do it all the time.
The fears are based on unfamiliarity and ignorance of techniques and safety protocols.
Any holster that's in front of the hip has the potential for pointing the gun at your thigh, crotch and/or femoral artery.
That includes "race holsters", appendix carry holsters (esp. IWB) and pocket holsters.
This is a big concern on stages where you start seated in a chair.
That's why a good holster, muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline are so important.
Behind the hip carry has the potential for 180 violations, especially with forward canted holsters.
As a RO I have to remind a lot of shooters to watch their muzzle when holstering up "hip side".
"Dropped and offset" hip holsters point the muzzle directly at your lower thigh and knee.
When I RO a pocket carrier I watch for the same things I do when I RO any other competitor.
Muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline.
Possible safety issues with the holster, clothing, accessories.
Violations are corrected or the competitor is disqualified depending on the nature of the violation/problem.
As to your second point, there is no way to avoid 180 violations and weak arm sweeping with a horizontal holster rig, that's why they aren't allowed.
If the shooter is facing downrange there is no way to draw the pistol without violating 180.
The only way to avoid muzzle sweeping the weak arm is to raise it over your head like you're washing your armpit.
It would be impractical to allow special dispensation to shoulder holster carriers to allow for a safe draw on every stage.
Dang, I was going to reply to Tamara's question but JodyH nailed it all in one post. About the only thing I can add is that not only is it a safety concern, it's a liability concern for whatever range happens to be hosting the match/class. Even if shooters sign a disclaimer, that doesn't mean they can't file a lawsuit, and that can get expensive, even if the shooter is completely in the wrong.
Wheeler
Men freely believe that which they desire.
Julius Caesar
The real issue is that if you're developing a game that is intended to grow beyond some local buddies and other known entities, you have to build some "lowest common denominator" into your rules. Pocket carry is safe for responsible people who know what they're doing. So is walking around everywhere with a loaded gun. But there is reason why games like USPSA and IDPA run cold ranges. It's not because of the Tamaras and JodyHs of the world. It's because of the idiot you see at the range who can't bother to remember what "down range" means.
Word. I can honestly say that I probably wouldn't shoot USPSA matches if they ran them on hot ranges.
Are people being allowed to get away with major safety violations without getting DQ'd?
Thanks Todd, With skill levels all over the map the only safe way to hold a match is from a stong side holster in my view, many people may carry in a pocket but many do not practice the draw from it, if in the pocket were is the muzzle and trigger finger, safety, safety, safety.
It's a fact that the majority of AD's happen while loading or unloading a gun.
I worry more about 100 unknown people constantly loading and unloading all day long.
Add in the fact that the majority of "accidents" happen with "unloaded" firearms and the lax attitudes an "unloaded" gun encourage and I wouldn't be opposed to running a hot range.
Rule #1 of a hot range, you touch your gun away from the designated firing line and you're PERMANENTLY banned.
No appeal, no second chance, GONE.
Except the loading and unloading happens one at a time under direct RO supervision.
Early in my competition career, I was one of those 'the real world is a hot range' guys. Now that I'm an SO/RO and occasional MD, I'm fine with cold ranges. Maybe it's worth splitting this discussion to it's own thread?
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