Glock and the .40

[358156hp]

I still like. 40, even though I hardly shoot it at all anymore. Was fun last week doing our DOTW experiment, was good to run a little .40 again.

Are we hearing any reports of .40 guns not being ideal for optics? Are .40s harder on optics than 9's in any meaningful way, i.e. the optic doesn't last as long, with the harsher recoil impulse?

Or is that not a problem with beefier guns that were made for it, like the USP?

S&W has made .40 M&P CORE pistols in the past. It looks like the M&P Metal pistol is available with the optics cut, as are the 10mm versions as well.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...opticready=YES

[GJM]

I have two G5 20 MOS pistols with EPS optics on DPP plates that are doing fine.

[EDW]

A busy new local high-end gunstore/range has all the current hot sellers in ARs, tactical bolt guns, and striker and 2011 9x19s. A few revolvers and shotguns. Pallets of .223 and 9mm. Their Gen 5 Glock .40 and .45 magazines, new in the packaging, are $10 each, and they are on the wall next to the 9mm mags at the regular full price of $30.

The proprietor says that nobody buys them and they can make better use of the space they occupy. That strikes me as a tell that builds on the ammo cost situation. I tried to help him with his problem, and stocked up for my G27.3 travel gun. There are a lot of old .40 Glock mags out there, but not so many with the more recent-numbered followers.

While I was there another customer asked if he had any Scout rifles. Nice of him to ask, as suddenly I wasn't the oldest geezer in the store.

[Lunker]

Now that I have my Glock 47, I don’t really feel the need for keeping my Gen5 G34. Iron-sighted longslide guns in general are not doing much for me these days now that my eyes are slowly started to head south. I used to love them.
Maybe I’ll regret it, but I found someone local and committed to doing a swap of a new GEN 5 G22 MOS for my G34.

[GJM]

Now that I have my Glock 47, I don’t really feel the need for keeping my Gen5 G34. Iron-sighted longslide guns in general are not doing much for me these days now that my eyes are slowly started to head south. I used to love them.
Maybe I’ll regret it, but I found someone local and committed to doing a swap of a new GEN 5 G22 MOS for my G34.

One obsolete model for another! Just kidding, I would gladly take the G5 22 for one of my 34's.

[Velociginger]

I’m a .40 guy, for little practical reason. I may buy some more .40 while it’s cheap, but I have a 5 gallon bucket of .40 brass full to the top, so we should be good for a while. I have 9mm conversion barrels, mags, and ejectors as well.

Still, it disappoints me.

[Default.mp3]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience with the KKM .40 S&W barrel/comp combo, especially compared to a Roland Special?

[358156hp]

Wilson Combat has a bunch of .40 ammo on clearance if anyone's missed it https://wilsoncombat.com/clearance.html

[jetfire]

I have access to a lot of fun consumer data; for example I can pull a report that covers a representative sample of sales gathered from certain retailers and online sales outlets. Out of curiosity, I pulled two easy reports. The first was volume of ammo sales by caliber, and the second was handgun sales by caliber. I set the time parameters for 2023-YTD, to avoid any COVID-era data irregularities.

First up, ammo sales. For the defined period, and understanding that this data does not capture all retail sales, but rather a representative sample, 9mm outsold 40 S&W ammo by almost 6 million units. 6.21 million units sold vs 233k units sold, to be specific. As a control, I added date for 38 Special and 357 Magnum, which sold 190k and 117k units, respectively during the same time period. 38 Special makes a pretty solid control as its sales don't really fluctuate the way other rounds do. In terms of gross revenue, 9mm sales were $99.5 Million, compared to $6.5M for 40 S&W, $6 million for 38 Special, and $4 million for 357 Magnum. Looking at the trend graph, 40 S&W sales haven't really been trending down, they basically follow the same market spikes as overall ammo sales, just in lower volume than anything else.

Next, handgun sales. I pulled data from the same period on number of new handguns sold in 9mm vs 40 S&W, and for this report used 22 LR handguns as a control caliber, as their sales remain fairly steady and are largely unaffected by trends.

Over that period, 9mm semi-automatic handguns sold approximately 500,000 units (again this isn't ALL sales, just a sample), 22 LR handguns sold about 56,000 units, and 40 S&W handguns sold about 13,500 units. I won't even bother to do the revenue comparison, because 500k vs 13k should be obvious to everyone. What is interesting is that during that period, Glock was the #1 seller of 40 S&W handguns by a significant margin.

Out of curiosity, I pulled a report on revolver sales from the same time period, revolvers chambered in either 357 Magnum or 38 Special sold about 42k units, outselling 40 S&W handguns by more than double.

Now, if I was to take this data to my boss and make a recommendation on whether or not we should discontinue 40 S&W handguns, I'd say that there appears to still be a demand for 40 S&W out there, but that demand appears to be well served by the secondary market and the re-sale market in terms of firearms. I would recommend no new models in 40 S&W, and that we scale our existing production of 40 S&W guns back to making runs every other year.

I think in Glock's case it actually makes sense to dump all their 40 S&W models, because even though they led the industry in 40 sales, it's a drop in the bucket compared to 9mm sales. I ran one last report to satisfy my curiosity, and over that same time period, we saw about 113k 9mm Glocks sold, compared to 6k 40 S&W Glocks. 40 S&W Glocks were actually outsold by 10mm Glocks, and almost outsold by 45 ACP Glocks.

[mmc45414]

Thanks for the Fun Facts! Actual data is interesting (at least to me).

For sure if I was in the gun selling business I would not be building or stocking any 40 S&W guns until I had met the 9mm demand, and realistically at some point it is probably just not worth screwing with, even if there is a use case differentiation there is a cost associated with the production and support and capitalization of a low volume product. In the case of retailing them capital is probably the killer, the money (including servicing the interest) is always going to have limits, as well as shelf space.

The spin on the topic that tends to aggravate me is when terms are used like dead and going away, when these numbers show that 357 Mag is only half as popular as 40 S&W, has existed since the thirties, and has not gone away.

First up, ammo sales. For the defined period, and understanding that this data does not capture all retail sales, but rather a representative sample, 9mm outsold 40 S&W ammo by almost 6 million units. 6.21 million units sold vs 233k units sold, to be specific. As a control, I added date for 38 Special and 357 Magnum, which sold 190k and 117k units, respectively during the same time period. 38 Special makes a pretty solid control as its sales don't really fluctuate the way other rounds do. In terms of gross revenue, 9mm sales were $99.5 Million, compared to $6.5M for 40 S&W, $6 million for 38 Special, and $4 million for 357 Magnum. Looking at the trend graph, 40 S&W sales haven't really been trending down, they basically follow the same market spikes as overall ammo sales, just in lower volume than anything else.