Changes to USPSA classification system

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Check out the write ups on https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/ Look for Larry Hickey

“The practice jury said that Larry had too much training
and he should have known better. So how much we were going to get into [his training] was always very difficult to figure out because it was absolutely important to show Larry as this person that isn’t just out there with a gun and doesn’t know how to handle it.”

….the prosecutor would have forced their hand at trial. He harped endlessly on the various shooting classes Hickey had completed. … like a broken record, the prosecutor asked each expert and material witness about each class Hickey had completed, what it covered, challenging why a private citizen would need that knowledge…

We knew they were going to bring it up, but it actually helped us out

Also Chris Cox in the American Rifleman described an incident (details foggy in my mind, can't find a write up) where a guy went to the place of a renter due to some dispute. He got into an argument that turned physical and shots were fired. One shot had a significant delay in time, seconds IIRC (duh?) and was claimed to be unnecessary. That the shooter was a competitor was part of the prosecution. That's all I got on this one. I read it years ago.

[GJM]

I would be more worried about IDPA experience, since I am told that is training to survive a gun fight. In contrast, USPSA is just like golf with a gun, with no practical application, I am told.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Thanks for the laugh!! Yes, my IDPA experience had trained me to engage multiple targets from running to cover position to cover position marked with a stick. As compared to USPSA which trained me to run to multiple positions with an unrealistic gun and holster and stand in the open (NO stick) and then run to the next set of opponents and shoot them.

Many folks have been brained by a golf club or ball. So I was playing golf, there was a party ahead of us far down the fairway. I was told to 'take the shot' as I couldn't hit them. Yelled "Fore". Like a rocket from God, I swung and in a beautiful arc nailed a guy in the back! Perhaps, we should yell FORE in IDPA. I do recall a period of time when we were 'supposed' to challenge each target and tell them to drop the gun. One guy was doing it at IDPA until told to STFU.

I think being covered with bruises and owies from FOF was probably more relevant - LOL. We need IDPA and USPSA targets that shoot back with sims or airsoft. I had some great bruises from the NTI which shocked folks in the faculty locker room. Did you fall down and go boom? NO, ran into four guys with full auto long arms or semi pistols. OUCH - simulated bank robbery. Ran out a door when one crew came in. Suprise, there was another outside exit. The snubby life style did not suffice. I died!

[NETim]

I admit I would like to make it to B class before my career is over but the guy behind the trigger doesn’t work hard enough.

Regardless of the classification system, I am a MUCH better pistolero by just getting out there and competing.

Sometimes it’s even fun.

[GJM]

I admit I would like to make it to B class before my career is over but the guy behind the trigger doesn’t work hard enough.

Regardless of the classification system, I am a MUCH better pistolero by just getting out there and competing.

Sometimes it’s even fun.

Jedi thinks USPSA is fun, and he thinks this is what a stage looks like.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Agree, the practice of drawing, getting on target, sighting, shooting, grip and trigger control, etc. is well worth it. As I said, I can't run but getting to target and getting good hits - that's a good take away. Stress innoculation - not much anymore. The folks are nice - except the insular super squad, barely acknowledge the lower classes. I can learn from them, like if there is a porthole to shoot through, take an extra mag and throw it at the porthole door so you can open it and shoot through without having to run up to it. Saves time!! The director versed the door next time so you couldn't do that.

[Rocky Racoon]

Well, if you qualify at super duper levels:

1. In court, you will painted as training to be a killer. This has happened in at least one case.

Check out the write ups on https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/ Look for Larry Hickey

Here's an extensive account of the Hickey shooting and trials.
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/ima...ork_2010-9.pdf

There's no mention of Hickey's USPSA ranking (if he had one) coming up at the trials. It was brought up that he had tactical training, but the defense says it backfired on the prosecution.

"Even if the defense had chosen to give only cursory mention to Hickey’s training, the prosecutor would have forced their hand at trial. He harped endlessly on the various shooting classes Hickey had completed. “It worked to our advantage in both trials because we disclosed all that to the prosecutor from Day One,” Messmer states. “In trial,the prosecutor went overboard with that and he really disgusted the jury because he wasted their time,” Messmer explains, relating how, like a broken record, the prosecutor asked each expert and material witness about each class Hickey had completed, what it covered, challenging why a private citizen would need that knowledge. Messmer believes the jury eventually thought, “Get to the point. We know that!” He adds, “It made the prosecution look bad because Larry was getting training and doing his job and they were attacking him for that. It blew up on them in the first trial, and they went back to it and it blew again in the second trial. We knew they were going to bring it up, but it actually helped us out.”

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The take away point was that such could be brought up and Marty says you need a defense team that understands this and can deal with it.

I'm certainly 'damned' with numerous classes and years of competition as a madman. Larry went through hell in his legal travails.

Remember Berhard Goetz got a tougher sentence on his gun possession (not the SD portion of his trials) because of his tactical holster and HP rounds. The jury discussed it during the SD portion but the SD claim was strong enough to override that.

[DMF13]

Jedi thinks USPSA is fun, and he thinks this is what a stage looks like.

I appreciate the sentiment, but that's not a "USPSA type of stage."

[GJM]

I appreciate the sentiment, but that's not a "USPSA type of stage."

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