The Case Against Shotguns

[Lon]

Nothing seems to motivate people to want the job. A friend sent me a notice that a large metro department will now accept new hires up to 54 years of age. In the 1980s the hiring window was 21 yo to take a test, and you could not have turned 31 by appointment date. Minimum retirement age was 52. You could work as long as you could stand it, but I don't think anyone turned 58 while still on the job.

Interesting times.

We just had a discussion amongst our Command Staff about this the other day and we’ve decided that it is more realistic to plan on a max service life of 5-10 years for officers. After that we should plan on them going somewhere else or leaving police work. Gone are the days of officers doing an entire career at one agency. So we now don’t worry about age so much. I think one of our top candidates in this most recent group we interviewed was 44.

[DDTSGM]

I think you could look at the total numbers of officers in the state and look at state academy stats to see how long cops last.

Our State Academy served everyone but Kansas Highway Patrol, Johnson County, Wichita/Sedgwick County, and Topeka.

Currently there are roughly 8,000 officers in Kansas (this number includes commissioned jail staff) and when I retired we were training 350+ a year at the academy. I'd imagine the others totaled around 150 a year for 500 a year total.

So, essentially every 14 years you've trained the equivalent of a total turnover.

We had one agency that had several officers in each class, we looked back one time and figured every 5 years we trained a whole new patrol division for them - we were running 5 classes a year at that time.

In my area, I think there are a lot of folks who work a couple years at smaller agencies and move to a bigger one. Many of the folks who stay at smaller agencies have an attachment to the area. My feeling is that most larger agencies don't have that draw.

Another decision point for many officers is when they become vested in the retirement system and their contributions are tied up. I had an acquaintance who quit his job so he could grab the less than $5,000 he had paid into the retirement system. Forward thinking, that.

We always kinda joked that the average officer in Kansas worked for two or three years them spent the rest of their work career talking about 'when they used to be a police officer.'

[Trooper224]

I think you could look at the total numbers of officers in the state and look at state academy stats to see how long cops last.

Our State Academy served everyone but Kansas Highway Patrol, Johnson County, Wichita/Sedgwick County, and Topeka.

Currently there are roughly 8,000 officers in Kansas (this number includes commissioned jail staff) and when I retired we were training 350+ a year at the academy. I'd imagine the others totaled around 150 a year for 500 a year total.

So, essentially every 14 years you've trained the equivalent of a total turnover.

We had one agency that had several officers in each class, we looked back one time and figured every 5 years we trained a whole new patrol division for them - we were running 5 classes a year at that time.

In my area, I think there are a lot of folks who work a couple years at smaller agencies and move to a bigger one. Many of the folks who stay at smaller agencies have an attachment to the area. My feeling is that most larger agencies don't have that draw.

Another decision point for many officers is when they become vested in the retirement system and their contributions are tied up. I had an acquaintance who quit his job so he could grab the less than $5,000 he had paid into the retirement system. Forward thinking, that.

We always kinda joked that the average officer in Kansas worked for two or three years them spent the rest of their work career talking about 'when they used to be a police officer.'

That is absolutely no joke.

[Joe Mac]

We always kinda joked that the average officer in Kansas worked for two or three years them spent the rest of their work career talking about 'when they used to be a police officer.'

I did 27 years: 12 as an officer, 15 as a sergeant, all of it in patrol. In retrospect I think it might have been healthier to move to a specialty unit (I had plenty of offers), but I had a lot of pride invested in being a patrol cop. I thought it was where I was most useful - especially as a sergeant, because I had no interest in promoting further.

[BobM]

I did 27 years: 12 as an officer, 15 as a sergeant, all of it in patrol. In retrospect I think it might have been healthier to move to a specialty unit (I had plenty of offers), but I had a lot of pride invested in being a patrol cop. I thought it was where I was most useful - especially as a sergeant, because I had no interest in promoting further.

I get it, 32 years total for me, promoted to sergeant in 97, then to assistant chief in 2021. Six months of that and I was ready to retire.

[Borderland]

I did 27 years: 12 as an officer, 15 as a sergeant, all of it in patrol. In retrospect I think it might have been healthier to move to a specialty unit (I had plenty of offers), but I had a lot of pride invested in being a patrol cop. I thought it was where I was most useful - especially as a sergeant, because I had no interest in promoting further.

Sometimes it's best to stay away from a desk. I spent 40 years working as a field surveyor. Had a few chances to move up ??? to an adm position but saw some health related issues there.

[Wes Peart]

I agree with officers who are proficient with them and want them should have them.

Unfortunately LE is afflicted by much the same stupidity as the military with "everyone will be the same" because..the same. My agency used to issue shotguns and then got rid of them because they went to rifles and didn't want to have to buy shotgun ammo in addition to rifle ammo. Myself and numerous others would be happy to provide our own quality shotguns and pay for our own duty and qual ammo out of pocket. Nope, no chance.

Meanwhile one county over you provide your own duty weapon and duty gear as long as you can qual with it you can carry anything from a Glock to a 2011 with an RMR or even a 357 six shooter if you still desire.

[willie]

Not law enforcement. In the past I remember when some departments required officers to buy their own handgun. In the 1960's the Texas prison system required mounted guys to provide their own saddle.

[AMC]

California POST complicated this for us here by staying with the shotgun training requirement for Basic Academies. Since we HAD to train our folks with Shotguns, and the Patrol Rifle course was an additional 30 hrs, that made the decision easy for our command.

[Cory]

The agency I breifly worked for issued an AR and a shotgun with 8 pellet FFC to every car. During FTO I told several of the trainers I was comfortable with the 12 and would take it if needed. All of them were surprised because they hated it. I grew up shooting clays, turkey hunting, and deer hunting. Even with the difference between that world of shotguns and social use there is a lot of carry over. I'm comfortable with the basic manipulations and bead sights. That alone put most of the guys out of the shotgun camp. Add in the recoil and relatively low capacity and most don't see the benefit. Just as much they aren't "tacticool" in media. Young cops tend to idolize elite military guys. So they see the drawbacks, recoil, and no cool dudes using it. Then they don't grasp that it can often be the best tool for their job.

As far as longevity... I know I left the job because of the hours. It's a blast to arrest bad guys, the fun is worth the paperwork, and I genuinely enjoyed it. Some of the coworkers are bitter and burned out, but the young kids are hard chargers. Some of the supervisors are assholes and some are good. Basically they're people. But 12 hour shifts turning into 16 isn't sustainable for a family man. Add in days off with court, getting your car to the shop, and a 45 minute commute so you don't shit where you eat... The job has to be your entire life if you want to do it right and give a damn. And that doesn't stack up favorably against my wife and 8 year old. When I knew it wasn't going to last I pulled the plug pretty quick.