I prefer extractors over ejectors in double guns. I do keep a loaded double near by and think that if I needed more than two shots, then I'm just plain screwed. I move slow these days.
I prefer extractors over ejectors in double guns. I do keep a loaded double near by and think that if I needed more than two shots, then I'm just plain screwed. I move slow these days.
True, but the 12ga bore is pretty big, which helps.Originally Posted by 1slow
I use an H&R Topper chopped down to 19" barrel as my "50-state legal" travel gun. I practice with it about once a month. If you stage a couple of spare shells between the fingers of your off hand, you can run that thing almost as fast as port loading an empty pump. After some practice, a fumbled shell load becomes rare. The part I screw up the most is recocking the hammer before breaking the action.
[MENTION=4]TCinVA[/MENTION] what's your opinion of 870 Expresses made prior to the late 90's?
My understanding is that the hand on the fore end held 2 cartridges between the fingers. Shoot, break action open ejecting shells, drop 2 shells in, close action, get back to work. I had a .470 NE Heym but never practiced the reload enough to be good with it. Recoil was not bad but under stress, bad weather , this would be daunting. I’m not sure that chest mounted cartridge loops might not be more sure. This would probably be more true as recoil increases to .577 NE levels.
My dad bought one. It's smooth as silk. The original Express was a parkerized finish on the receiver, barrel, and mag tube, a blued bolt (instead of the chromed bolt) and matte finished lower grade wood instead of the clear-coated, figured walnut on the Wingmaster. But crucially they were still being vibra-honed. They would wear in and run slick as butter on a hot biscuit.
3/15/2016
I bought one in 1987 about when they came out and it still runs great
I'd like well regulated (barrels to POI) double in .30-30. That is plenty for me.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
The original video is from a channel called Target Focused Life on youtube. Episode is a comparison of old versus new 870s at 16:15 where he is deliberately trying to run the shotguns very fast.
Appreciate the input of [MENTION=4]TCinVA[/MENTION] in particular about a speed fixation being the main culprit as that is exactly what seems to be the case here. As a young man, I distinctly remember my Dad telling me you could run a pump as fast as an auto. I'm willing to bet that was my problem with that Ithaca 37 too. Interestingly, this shooter comments in the video that fit is an issue with guns he is shooting.
The timing of the shell stops releasing the next round for feeding is a nice data point. Throw out that hypothesis...
Clint Smith has a shotgun training DVD out where he runs an ejector equipped short barreled single shot (with a taped on light no less) at a very respectable rate. I totally get this is a technique issue but I was curious if it was possible to stack the deck a little for function.
For [MENTION=9985]RevolverRob[/MENTION], I am no lawyer, but I recall reading Chicago had a law about shotgun barrels not being shorter than 20 inches. Take the bypasses around Chicago. Which is a good idea for a lot of reasons.
Last edited by 314159; 01-24-2025 at 07:53 AM.
My apologies to weasels.
No concerns, I lived in Chicago for 6.5 years.
I just watched the video. I saw the speed shooting section...speed shooting is relevant when you're trying to bust three hand-thrown clays...and indeed it's exactly what I was expecting. He was trying to run the gun as fast as possible and that didn't work out so hot especially on the newer guns.
He didn't seem to have any problem with his much older Express gun that had likely seen a lot of rounds to break it in. His best reliable splits with the newer guns was .35, from my viewing...which tracks. He even hypothesizes that the reason is the older gun is just more broken in. I'd agree 100%.
He's also right that you can determine a lot about a gun by running it that fast. I will often mag-dump a client's gun as fast as possible when I suspect it of exhibiting problems to see where the problem is. The thing about it is that each gun has a certain "rhythm" to it's action that develops as the gun gets broken in. They are all going to have a slightly different max speed. The fastest I've ever run a pump with a split was Robb Haught's well-used Wilson 870 at a .22 split. The fastest I could run that gun reliably was .24.
With my teaching 870 the fastest I can go reliably is about .28. It's not as smooth and I can actually feel it "dragging" as I run the action compared to a smoother gun.
Does it make a practical difference? The smoother gun is a little easier to do single handed loading and manipulations with. It provides a little bit extra margin of error when running the gun from the off shoulder. So there are some benefits, but they are marginal at best and likely completely hypothetical for most people's defensive applications.
For clients what I'm shooting for is essentially a "max" speed of .5 per shot. A pump gun that you're able to fire twice per second and get solid vital hits with buckshot is going to be a monsterously effective close quarters defensive tool. And that's being done on multiple targets first in a "performance" method and later as skill develops accounting for muzzle aversion around non-threats downrange. If someone can deliver the hits at that kind of pace on multiple targets, you're going to need actual terminators to overwhelm them in a halfway decent defensive position.
That might be why I get so many guys who used to do infantry combat coming to class to learn how to use a shotgun to handle business by themselves at home...
3/15/2016
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