Manipulation of Manual Safeties

[piefairy]

I was taught the 4 count draw, and the safety came off on count 1, when the gun is out of the holster, in retention by your side and aimed down range. Count 2 was forming 2 handed grip, 3 was presentation, 4 was fire.

[CraigS]

I worked with a guy who was a lead firearms instructor/investigator for his department. The issued weapon at the time was the Beretta 92G. While not a common occurrence, this happened more than once. The investigators had to show up on a scene whenever guns were drawn, regardless of whether shots were fired. (This is NJ, not sure if that is common practice?) In more than one instance, following an intense event, he noticed the holstered and unfired 92 had its hammer at half cock. The logical explanation would be that at some point during the confrontation some pressure had been applied to the trigger.

Now I’m not implying in any way that one should rely on this as a safety feature, or that in most scenarios enough pressure would’ve been applied to discharge the gun in a startling situation. It’s curious to ponder in those situations if the result would’ve been different with a short striker fired firearm such as the P320.

This tells me that our choice of 92Gs for HD and for idpa is a good one. I agree w/ the explanation that some pressure had been applied to the trigger. But, for those not familiar w/ 92s of any variety, in the hammer down DA mode, the trigger is significantly further forward than in SA mode. And the pull weight in DA is roughly double that of SA. I can also say that the pull that those officers exerted would most likely have fired a striker pistol. No way to prove that of course, but the officers did NOT fire their guns and that was a good thing.

[David S.]

There have been some very in depth discussions about manual safeties on this forum over the years.

It might behoove the OP to go back and look through them. Can't imagine anything has really changed. For instance:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....at-s-your-take

[David S.]

There have been some very in depth discussions about manual safeties on this forum over the years.

It might behoove the OP to go back and look through them. Can't imagine anything has really changed. For instance:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....at-s-your-take

[jandbj]

I carry manual safety p365 in summer, I disengage safety in the holster after I've seated the gun.

[MENTION=17865]RustyCrusty[/MENTION] mentions doing the same in a recent Bodyguard 2.0 video.

[Tensaw]

There have been some very in depth discussions about manual safeties on this forum over the years.

It might behoove the OP to go back and look through them. Can't imagine anything has really changed. For instance:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....at-s-your-take

Thought about that when I posted...

For anyone else about to delve into that linked thread, it's a good discussion on the relative merits of manual safeties, but not much on how to use them, if that is what you are looking for.

[Joe S]

But, for those not familiar w/ 92s of any variety, in the hammer down DA mode, the trigger is significantly further forward than in SA mode. And the pull weight in DA is roughly double that of SA.

At some point here, someone (maybe @Glenn Miller?) had posted a study that someone had done. Turns out that travel length on a trigger makes a bigger difference in terms of unintended discharges than trigger weight. I think the idea is, most hands can clench 8-10, or even 14 lbs. of pressure with no problem. But if your finger is moving further against resistance, it gives your brain an extra fraction of a second to say, "Hey Finger! What are you doing down there?"

That's my recollection, anyway. Maybe someone has it saved.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I might have but don't remember that one. I might check if I get the chance in my files. As an aside, I used to get a professional feed on safety issues - weapons, cars, planes, etc. All kinds of stuff. But then the major journal companies cut off the funding for it as folks were reading abstracts without paying. So much for science vs. greed. Free market - Hurray!

[Rex G]

My problem with reflexively thumbing-off a 1911’s thumb safety at the #1 point in a 3-or-4-count draw stroke is that I may well want to manage a threat, rather than simply immediately start shooting at a threat. I might well have to walk or run before I have a target in sight.

[Elwin]

My problem with reflexively thumbing-off a 1911’s thumb safety at the #1 point in a 3-or-4-count draw stroke is that I may well want to manage a threat, rather than simply immediately start shooting at a threat. I might well have to walk or run before I have a target in sight.

Not LE, but otherwise same. I think it's worthwhile to add in dry fire reps of drawing to whatever portions of your draw stroke exist before muzzle hits target and keeping the safety on. Similar to the concept of specifically wanting dry fire reps where you draw and do not pull the trigger.