Keltec PR57

[Half Moon]

How do you like the Bersa? Has it been somewhat reliable?

I like the idea of the 5.7, at least in theory, and for some shooters. I wish the M&P version had a decent manual safety on it.

The Bersa is a mixed bag. Surprisingly accurate. Reliability is very ammo dependent. Sample of one, hers loves 40 grain mini-mags. Almost anything else is jam prone especially with lighter weight bullets. Magazines were hard to find and pricy in .22 but haven't bought ones for it in a few years. Not experienced with the .22 but with her Bersa .380 the magazine catches are prone to break if the slide is released with with the lever regularly. Apparently slingshot release is the right way to prevent this. All in all not bad for the $200-ish she paid for it.

[TGS]

Those planning on being able to penetrate soft body armor should also consider:

18 USC sec. 921(a)(17) (defining armor-piercing ammo)

18 USC sec. 922(a)(7) (prohibiting armor-piercing ammo)

While I cannot comment on the effectiveness or lack thereof of commercially-available 5.7, the ammo specifically designed for this purpose is unavailable to those of us who are mere civilians.

There's several commercially available loads that do not meet the legal definition of AP and will effortlessly punch through IIIA soft armor.

[zaitcev]

Addressing other points upthread, I would never consider a 5.7 for someone who is not recoil sensitive for the following reasons:

DocGKR's comments on the lack of effectiveness

I cannot help noticing yet again that the quotes he chose deal with the lack of power when compared with an M4. This is completely irrelevant when we are replacing a carry 9mm.

Only one of the DocGKR's quotes makes a reference to handguns, and that is: "The 5.7 pistol as a carry gun is a mistake. There are far more effective weapons and ammunition combinations out there." Well yeah. If you can carry a 10mm, go for it.

So nothing in DocGKR's material dissuades me from carrying a 5.7. Some other writings may, but not that.

[BillSWPA]

I cannot help noticing yet again that the quotes he chose deal with the lack of power when compared with an M4. This is completely irrelevant when we are replacing a carry 9mm.

Only one of the DocGKR's quotes makes a reference to handguns, and that is: "The 5.7 pistol as a carry gun is a mistake. There are far more effective weapons and ammunition combinations out there." Well yeah. If you can carry a 10mm, go for it.

So nothing in DocGKR's material dissuades me from carrying a 5.7. Some other writings may, but not that.

The descriptions of inadequate performance from 5.7 discussed their use from submachine guns. If 5.7 performs that badly from a full auto long gun, would you expect a handgun to do better?

Would you pick a 5.7 pistol over a 9mm for use on a church security team?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If I were a serious 'team' member wearing a nice sport court - I would much rather have a G17 or equivalent and two extra mag than this gun. Sure, you might save the day from a lone nut but if it more than that - but that never happens and 5 is enough.

We haven't seen the really intense horror shows of Europe or Russia. Two assailants at most but there's always a chance. I'd be interested if some did a real survey of such teams for guns and training.

[Zincwarrior]

How do I put this politely, if you can afford it, are you going to trust your life to a Kel-Tec?

[Blades]

How do I put this politely, if you can afford it, are you going to trust your life to a Kel-Tec?

Hopefully it's as reliable as the P32. I don't want it as a primary pistol but in another 20 years when I'm 77 it may be exactly what I need. Of course in 20 years we should have the Westinghouse M95A1 Phase Plasma Rifle in the 40 watt range.

[BillSWPA]

How do I put this politely, if you can afford it, are you going to trust your life to a Kel-Tec?

1. Approximately 1,500 rounds through my P-32 has established its reliability.

2. A smaller number of rounds - but still in the hundreds - establishes the reliability of my P3AT.

3. Ruger liked the design of the P3AT enough to make their own version of essentially the same design.

4. The Pistol-Training website run by SLG documents his 2,000 round test of a P-32.

[piefairy]

Hopefully it's as reliable as the P32. I don't want it as a primary pistol but in another 20 years when I'm 77 it may be exactly what I need. Of course in 20 years we should have the Westinghouse M95A1 Phase Plasma Rifle in the 40 watt range.

Ah but that only has a 5 shot battery, then you have to go through the whole battery swap. You should really go with Tesla P67 MII, it has a higher capacity battery and is marginally more concealable :P

[Glenn E. Meyer]

How do I put this politely, if you can afford it, are you going to trust your life to a Kel-Tec?

Maybe new ones are better but I wouidn't. I saw a SU-16 crack in half at a carbine class. My friend had a pocket 9 something and its pins always walked out.

That being said - after my two screwed up G42s, I don't really trust anything. Got to test them intensively.