Rethink the J frame life style - Ellifritz piece

[WobblyPossum]

I've been re-reading his stuff over the last week after this thread took off and it's good stuff for the most part. He throws a pretty wide net and brings in a lot of different POVs, which is great.
Two in particular that stood out were the story of how he seriously injured his knee while hiking in the mountains and the lessons learned, and a discussion about the distinctions of the levels of permissiveness.
He differentiated between "non-permissive" and "semi-permissive", and the levels of risk and consequence that ensue.

Re: the active shooter(terrorist) in a crowded venue.
He went to a packed music event in a semi-permissive environment and smuggled weapon in. He noticed the heavy police presence and chatted up one of the cops, who made a chilling statement: Since there were no weapons allowed, he made the default assumption that the guy holding a weapon was the killer.
Like it or not, it's a reasonable assumption to everyone but the denizens of gun boards.
Others, like Ayoob,Haggard and Bolke have made the same observations. The cops are coming, hard and fast, They won't be Delta operators, no matter how much we might want them to be. There was a tragic mass shooting a couple of years back where a citizen killed the shooter after a cop was murdered, then he himself was killed by another responding officer.
More than one innocent armed citizen(or off duty or undercover cop) has been killed under ugly exigent circumstances. No doubt your family will never want for money again, and ACABers will howl with righteous glee, but...

There was a forgettable movie(The Interpreter) starring Sean Penn(ew) where he played a Secret Service Agent. At one point he was demonstrating to a class how to surrender to first responders if you're in plain clothes holding a gun on a suspect*. I remember thinking that everyone who carries a gun should be taught that and visualize it in their training. Instead, on other gun boards, you hear defiance and derision at the cops and never talk to the cops and how by God I'll have their badge being the main subject after shootings. In fact, more and more, fleeing and attempting to not be identified(HA HA! Burn!) is advocated among the nutterati.
What a timeline.


*It's literally the only scene from the movie I remember.

My biggest day to day worry in an on-duty plain clothes LE/off-duty ccw context is being gunned down by uniformed first responders. We’re required to teach a block on concealed carry every year. I spend about 20 minutes of that block talking to my people about things they can do to reduce (but not eliminate) the risk that responders shoot them after a critical incident.

[fatdog]

Mas used to teach the "rings of safety" concept regarding responding officers and the outer rings were as I recall were the greeting committee and what you were communicating to their dispatcher on the phone. Greeting committee was members of your family or household who were going to meet them outside the house or shooting area, and explain what they were about to see, who you were, what you looked like, how you were dressed, etc.

Most of that goes away in these public venues, and just you plus how fast you can drop or put away the weapon could end up being your only ring of safety/prevention from that concept.

Safely de-cock and reholster (concealed) has become as much a part of my practice as the draw stroke at this point in my life. If my attacker is down and I have inspected my 360 for others, I don't plan to stand over him and hold him at gun point, rather to get out of his immediate field of fire and put the gun away. I don't see or hear that tactic being taught much if at all, but my next worry after the attacker is down is those responding officers and that is a REAL threat. Off duty officers or "sheepdog" people arriving at the scene could pose an equal threat.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

In an NTI run, I had 'shot' a terrorist in a court house attack. Then the law arrived. I ditched the gun and stood there with my hands up, shouting:Good Guy!

In a school shooter exercise, I was a bystander. I was standing there (I was supposed to - not to run away, it was to see what the arriving law would do, that was the script). I had my hands up and an officer just shot me. The referee asked the shooter - why? He said, I moved.

On the other hand, I was the bad guy, and surrended. Hands up, dropped the long arm. The law stood facing me talking and I reached behind my back to an airsoft Bug and shot a guy in the face mask (full masks) and then I got shot.

[Crazy Dane]

Color me late, today is my Sunday and it's snowing so I've been reading all day. I know there is already thread drift in typical P-F fashion, so to the original topic,

'I don't live where you do and you don't live where I do'. What this means is when I wake up of a morning my biggest concern is, did an owl get another one of my ducks not, is there terrorists driving down my road. However, there is a slight concern that Moldovan paratroopers, all both of them, could drop from the sky at any moment. The town I go to, to get a jug of tractor fuel and chainsaw gas doesn't have the bloods or the crips running through it, hell most of its .12 sq mile is taken up by the schools. Where you live is most likely very different.

It's not that I don't think there is a terror threat in this country, it's just that I think the terror threat in my AO is very very low and as for other violence, well it has really low expectations too.

I think it is up to each and every one of us to figure out what level of risk we face and plan accordingly and (I really don't want to say anything bad about anyone but) not go off of what some talking head says because he got spooked by what some fear doom porn evangelist is spewing.

I will get up in the morning and stick my LCR in my jacket pocket and head on to work.

[cathellsk]

'I don't live where you do and you don't live where I do'..

This reminds me of one of those typical “what do you carry” posts on the S&WForum I read once.

There was a guy I followed on there that was retired LAPD with like 22yrs on the job. I’m going on memory but basically he said I’m not one to disparage what someone else carries but some of you guys carry more than I did when I was in narcotics the last 10yrs.

Since retiring he carries a J frame and 6rds on a speed strip. One thing he noticed during his career was when rounds started flying people split fast.

I’m sure he lives the Snubby life same as D. Bolke.

[revchuck38]

BTW - @blues - Karl is hosting Chuck Haggard for a small gun course in Feb. If I were there, I would take it! I think one of our TX located members said he was going to be in the class and I should eat my heart out.

Dang, Glenn!

About revchuck38
Location
South Louisiana

Why you hatin' on me, bruh?

I've taken enough of Karl's classes to earn his coin, plus a couple of re-takes, plus a couple of other trainers (Givens, Weems) he's hosted. His range is located 254 miles from my house, with Buckee's in Baytown a convenient halfway point. When I started getting serious about nine years ago, he was the closest quality trainer.

[Chuck Whitlock]

... most gun folks need a lot more social literacy and the verbal/cultural skills to sell beachside property in Colorado.

I try to tell those who will listen that they should develop the art of telling someone to go to hell, such that at the end of the exchange they get thanked for the directions.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I sincerely apologize for saying "TX" - my mistake. Funny about Karl - when I moved to San Antonio, back in 1994 - they were just passing a CHL law. I was in Austin and picked up a UT Austin continuing ed catalog - pottery, yoga, etc. There was a class on 'guns' by Karl! So I took it and got started down the road. Wonder if they would do a continuing ed class on guns now.

I had taken NRA handgun courses in OR - and had a 442 and G19, plus a NAA 22 Mag mini (because). Then I found Mike Webb's Texas Tactical matches and the ones at Bander with Tim Reedy.

[Leroy Suggs]

MY method has been "Work out your own salvation."
I am confident, pleased, and satisfied with the guns I carry and how and when I carry them.
I don't care what others carry or do. That is their business.

[Totem Polar]

MY method has been "Work out your own salvation."
I am confident, pleased, and satisfied with the guns I carry and how and when I carry them.
I don't care what others carry or do. That is their business.

So long as they carry safely, this works for me.