REAL WORLD shooting performance of Cheap jhp in 9mm mostly, but 40 & 45 too?

[Ghost Dog]

For our very experienced investigators out there paging @blueeyes is it...excuse my tired brain....

Regarding cheap old tech cup n core, how well real world, how much did clothing and or short barrel make it not expand at all or just half way partially and lopsided?

with cheap 9mm primarily, typical shootings that were not all w fmj but often cheap cup n core, usually 115 gr stuff bought at Walmart back in the day like WWB should have got more expansion, less penetration and Remington should have been less expansion more penetration how did they actually perform in the real world and was that similar to Hi Shok and many old tech loadings with 9bp being the one standard pressure old tech 115 gr load that I think worked fairly well even before +p+ added compared to the others. We know how the 147 WWB did in what @DrGokor @DrGokor 46ish OIS not through bone.

Did the 115 stuff seem to go straight or lots of divergence and deflection?

With .40 even cheap stuff even short barrels , it seems to have enough energy almost all loads perform fairly well with maybe a UMC exception. Did it seem that way real world, and no deflection due to momentum?

What about .45...cheap .45 230 cup and core is likely hard to tell...with 5" light clothing likely did fairly well, with shorter barrels or heavy clothing often no expansion. Going back to cheap stuff, wwb, Remington, HiShok, and even Hydrashoks correct? 5" summertime Hydrashoks likely did fairly good for back in the day.... Winter time short barrel and zing out the back skin?

As back in the day and even until recently, most are shot with fmj or cheap old tech so would like to know how those do in various calibers and how seasonal clothing and barrel length factors had a difference?





Now for fun thought.....
If you were limited to old school WWB level tech, suddenly the .40 w 180 grains of momentum and enough energy to get expansion even through clothing and even through barriers would kind of make 40 in the right platform shine again....if one was so limited....

Thought experiment time machine....If pre Gold Dot....suddenly caliber maybe does matter a bit more No? And Barrel Length matters more...

In .38 Old Tech say FBI load...3" I am comfortable with that if forced...2" not so much.

9mm pre Gold Dot? Winter Time? a Micro barrel no bueno. Suddenly at least 4" would matter more again.

.40 shines even short barrels old tech

.45...back then shorter than Commander kinda blows but at least doesn't shrink. Even now, have to be very selective in short .45s .

Besides Flash Bang Smack...at least 2.5" & 3" .357 125 gr sjhp was expanding and fragging even though heavy clothing where maybe in Winter 9s and .38s were not reliably with old tech?

[paherne]

147 grain JHP Olin Super Match did yeoman work for about a decade. It didn't work great through windshields or intermediate barriers, but it worked if you put it where it needed to go. So did 158 grain LSWCHP+P. I would be just fine with either of those loads if that was all that was available for my G48 and M&P 340. There are other things far more important to worry about.

[Beat Trash]

My agency issued the Winchester 147gr JHP when transitioning from revolvers in the very early 1990’s up until around 2011. This round would come to be part of the Winchester white box loads. We are an urban agency that was around 1,000 -1,200 sworn officers, depending on the time frame.

This round was used in numerous OIS incidents.

It worked well. Until it didn’t…

Sometimes heaving clothing would plug up the hollow point cavity and cause a failure to expand. The round didn’t do well with intermediate barriers.

After seeing the inconsistent expansion, I just pretended as if I were carrying a FMJ round. If it expanded, well that’s a bonus.

As a young Officer, I quickly decided to prioritize good shot placement combined with the use of appropriate tactics, before my opponent could the same to me.

The one up side to this loading was that it was extremely accurate, for what it was.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The 1st four seconds of this clip:

It worked well. Until it didn’t…

There are other things far more important to worry about.