Combatives Fitness Test?

[03RN]

Larry cites Dan Jon's standards as:


He really dives in to how that stuff translates to sport. I'm worried that article will disappear someday, because I wind up referencing it a few times a year.




Personally, I think that it depends on what Steve Anderson would call "defining your level of participation". In otherwords, how much time energy and money are you willing to expend toward your goal? You can't expect to become Gordon Ryan by going to jits once a week, and not spending any money. You have to look at what you're willing to do and then set your goal in an appropriate fashion.

A better question than "standards" is maybe, what level of physicality do I need to be able to attend a combatives seminar and walk away better prepared. What do I need to be able to do physically to learn? And honestly, I think the answer is almost nothing. You can have serious physical limitations and attend a good instructors combatives class and walk away with more capability than you walked in with.

What do I need to be reasonably capable? Against who? I like to think of TPI's Todd. In which case I still need to do better.

What's past gamechanger?

[03RN]

I lift, run, and shoot guns. I don't participate in combatives (did not know what they were until I Googled it after I posted earlier, sorry). If combatives are the practice of some form of martial art that is hand to hand combat then some basic physical strength and stamina training would be beneficial. After that trying to progressive explosiveness (power cleans, cleans, snatchs, sprints etc.) would also be useful. Depending upon length of expected engagements you could interchange explosiveness with endurance in terms of priority but I see a lot of MMA types spousing the importance of a good cardio base.

The UBRR looks severely flawed. It is based upon an individual's perceived individual weaknesses (and I would guess his perceived weaknesses against an already flawed test).

It's an odd test or training regiment with a lot of redundancy and more unusual biases among those redundancies.

40 reps pushups
80% bodyweight bench press 6 reps
Dips 6 reps

Pushups tend to be around 60% bodyweight
Dips at bodyweight are harder than bench at bodyweight

Kip up, who cares, not useful, and even if you have the physical capability, you would need to practice it because again non functional and non useful

Total lack of hinge or lower body push testing, number one thing takes people down is lower back injuries, both of which are more important than anything else on the UBRR.

I think the 5 mile run or ruck would be important. You gotta have pretty decent ability to recover quickly from exertion (that's what the aerobic system is really for we just train it with LISS).

You could almost dump sprinting if you have a deadlift and squat requirement. No serious strength trainee could not sprint, the reverse cannot be said for runners.

I actually think kipups are a good way to work on body mechanics

[03RN]

For me if was going to train someone to be a warrior I'd work on these things.
Endurance
3 miles under 21 minutes
5 miles under 40 minutes
10 miles under 90 minutes
The ability to do 10 100 yard sprints with 1 minute breaks in-between sprints

Strength
Bare min
Ohp 135
Bench 225
Squat 315
Deadlift 405
Goal. All for 10 reps
Pull-ups 20

Fighting
Grappling
Striking

[Cory]

What's past gamechanger?

For me if was going to train someone to be a warrior I'd work on these things.
Endurance
3 miles under 21 minutes
5 miles under 40 minutes
10 miles under 90 minutes
The ability to do 10 100 yard sprints with 1 minute breaks in-between sprints

Strength
Bare min
Ohp 135
Bench 225
Squat 315
Deadlift 405
Goal. All for 10 reps
Pull-ups 20

Fighting
Grappling
Striking

You're an absolute animal.

Never change.

[03RN]

You're an absolute animal.

Never change.

Thanks

To be honest my run times aren't that fast right now. I just ran the other day and my first 3 miles were at 27 min. Now that my sons on a peddle bike I can work on my speed more. I was just happy that at an all out sprint at the end he couldn't catch me. He was actually surprised 😮

For me right now
Ohp 135x14
Bench 225x19
Squat 315x12
Deadlifts 405x12 and 455x9
Pullups 17 but chinups are at 21

My runs are typically slow due to kids on bikes and strollers so I'm just happy completing 6-8 miles in my 14lbs armor.

I just need to start rolling again. My kids instructors ask me every week when I'm going to start rolling with them

[Leroy]

For me if was going to train someone to be a warrior I'd work on these things.
Endurance
3 miles under 21 minutes
5 miles under 40 minutes
10 miles under 90 minutes
The ability to do 10 100 yard sprints with 1 minute breaks in-between sprints

Strength
Bare min
Ohp 135
Bench 225
Squat 315
Deadlift 405
Goal. All for 10 reps
Pull-ups 20

Fighting
Grappling
Striking

I like this. Standards are high, and even if someone can't hit all of them working towards these standards will still turn out a well rounded physical capability.

[G19Fan]

Another aspect of this, for me at age 56, is: what’s really a bigger need? Out-grappling one of the local fentanyl flop shitheads, or outliving age and work-related stressors? If I’m *really* serious about all this self-defense stuff, having solid musculature laurels to rest on in another 14 years when I’m turning 70, so I can put on my socks standing without falling over and still dig a car out of a snow bank, and having enough cardio to keep things well-oiled and moving without stroking out is more important than being Marcelo Garcia. We now collectively know that a lot of “balance” problems that older people have boil down to the fact that they don’t have enough muscle to support their own kinesthetic memory of being upright.

I may be an outlier. Gassing out was never a big problem for me in BJJ or ECQC. Constantly getting injured because I was a scrawny musician in his 50s was, so my answer for combatives training priority is *a lot* more strength-oriented than someone like Larry who was probably strong enough from his college days.

Ultimately, your body will tell you what you need if you push it. For the power lifter in the linked article, some long slow cardio seems to be indicated. For me, it’s getting to that 2xbody deadlift, all the way. We know because that guy reportedly couldn’t make it through the drills, and I was always tearing something. If somebody who’s young, runs 5 miles 4x weekly and can deadlift 2x their weight is constantly getting tapped, maybe they just need an extra 6am fundamentals class and a private a week. I don’t think this is either one-size fits all, or rocket science. See your weaknesses clearly; shore them up. Simple, really. JMO.

Agreed on a lot of this. I find bouldering significantly helpful for balance, grip, flexibiity, and functional bodyweight power generation.

Also combatives are fun but for most of is eating right, lifting cardio, balance, and flexibility work is going to be much more beneficial vs combatives on average.

I miss wrestling, bjj and boxing but the injuries post 40 and time dedication vs other things made them the easiest cuts.

[G19Fan]

For me if was going to train someone to be a warrior I'd work on these things.
Endurance
3 miles under 21 minutes
5 miles under 40 minutes
10 miles under 90 minutes
The ability to do 10 100 yard sprints with 1 minute breaks in-between sprints

Strength
Bare min
Ohp 135
Bench 225
Squat 315
Deadlift 405
Goal. All for 10 reps
Pull-ups 20

Fighting
Grappling
Striking

You are an animal. My max bench ever was 235 once @ 135. Can't imagine benching 225 19 times lol

[Cheap Shot]

I actually think kipups are a good way to work on body mechanics

I hurt my neck just watching that.......

[Rocky Racoon]

What's past gamechanger?

I know you are a stud and not entirely serious, but Dan John has talked about how strength after a certain point doesn’t make much difference. He uses the discus as an example. Once you reach a certain strength, the distance you can throw doesn’t increase as you get stronger.

His take is kinda refreshing - as most internet famous strength coaches (coming from a powerlifting background) seem to think the answer for how strong you should be is always “stronger” with little concern for diminishing returns and opportunity costs.