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Thread: Unity Tactical Atom installation on G17 with a T1

  1. #1

    Unity Tactical Atom installation on G17 with a T1

    Last year, during my RDS experiment, I ran a Glock 17 and M&P 9 FS with a RMR-02. I have followed the Unity Tactical Atom installation for the Glock, which allows you to mount a variety of optics, from the T1 to the RMR and future optics, using a series of changeable base plates. I decided to try a T1 on a Glock, since the T1 would seem to be the most rugged, weatherproof RDS available for mounting on a semi-auto handgun. A few weeks ago, I sent Mark Housel at L&M a G4 Glock 17 slide to install the Atom mount with a T1 and tritium back-up sights. I specified tritium reserve iron sights because I wanted something to help me acquire the dot in awkward positions and in the dark, and to use if the selected T1 setting was too low for the ambient light on a time critical shot.

    The T1/17 slide was waiting for me today, and I couldn't wait to shoot it. First thing I noticed, handling just the slide, besides the quality of the installation, was the iron sights appeared to be low, and I couldn't see the rear tritium dots. Hoped it was a function of not being on the lower. Got it on the lower, and sure enough, the iron sights were unusable thru the tube of the T1. I spoke with Mark at L&M and Trent from Unity Tactical, and apparently taller tritium sights are in the works. Possibly the non-tritium Ameriglo sights are higher. The lack of usable reserve sights right now makes this a proof of concept, as I won't be carrying a red dot pistol without reserve sights.

    I hustled out to shoot it. Round two was a stoppage, followed by about every other cartridge (Aguila 124 ball which runs well in our iron sighted Glock pistols). I took the pistol apart trying to figure out if something was assembled incorrectly, and while the pistol was dry, all appeared to be back together correctly. I replaced the extractor with an Apex G4 part, lubed it, and shot it again. It ran better, but I still had occasional stoppages. I then tried Lawman 124 TMJ and HST 124+P and had no issues. I believe that the weight of the T1, combined with the relatively mild Aguila, isn't a reliable combination. It is concerning, as it makes me worry that the weight of the T1 may reduce the reliability envelope of the host pistol, since this Glock ran fine, even with the old extractor, prior to the T1 installation.

    I spent some time shooting groups, and it shot fine (about 3 inches) as would be expected, although my 25 yard groups were just as good with my reference G19 and 34 with iron sights. The weight of the T1 was noticeable, and besides the stoppages, the pistol felt top heavy to me. I them pulled out my RMR/G17 and shot it. I actually shot smaller groups (about 2 to 2.5 inches) with a variety of ammo, and felt more comfortable shooting the RMR/17. Not sure if it was the more heads up display of the RMR, or the prominent iron reserve sights. Interestingly, on 40-50 yard 8 inch steel, in good light, I really felt as comfortable with my Glock 34 and iron sights as the red dot pistols -- perhaps because I have been shooting iron sights almost exclusively since March.

    Right at dark, I shot iron sights, the RMR/17 and the T1/17 again. Interestingly, where I preferred the RMR during the daylight, it bloomed badly at dusk, so that I had difficulty with the 40-50 yard steel. In the same light, my iron sights (Warren tactical rear, Heinie .235 tritium front) were near useless on the 40-50 yard steel. In the same conditions, the T1/17 was awesome, as I was able to turn down the intensity of the T1, and hit the same steel at will.

    So what do I think -- I believe in the future of red dot sights on handguns, but I am not satisfied with either the T1, RMR, or other available RDS sights I am aware of for a handgun. Since I can see regular iron sights, and especially with the sight radius of the 34, I feel like iron sights are my primary sighting system. The T1 may have some application in difficult light, possibly with a -14 monocular at night, and in inclement weather, but I am troubled by potential for diminished reliability from the weight of the T1, along with more trouble with holsters and concealment.

  2. #2
    George,

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM
    Possibly the non-tritium Ameriglo sights are higher.
    The Tritium suppressor sights are the same overall height as the Black steel sights since they are in fact the exact same sights just with Tritium vials. Of course the dots are below the top surface of the sights so it appears that the sights are shorter.

    WRT to the change in slide mass with the various ATOM adapters and RDS combinations, from Unity Tactical.
    Perhaps a slightly lighter recoil spring when shooting lower powered training ammo might make the difference?

    Adapter Net Weight Increase
    (With Optic)
    Aimpoint Micro 2.05 Ounces
    Trijicon RMR 0.00 Ounces
    Leupold Deltapoint (-)0.60 Ounces
    Insight MRDS (-)0.35 Ounces
    DR Optic / Burris FF2 (-)0.30 Ounces
    Iron Sights (-)1.0 Ounces
    FFL Type 01

    "I have learned that wisdom can be as simple as substituting facts for assumptions."

  3. #3
    Thanks GJM for the detailed report.

    Wonder if there have been reports by others on any T1 malfunctions.

    These type of reports give me pause to move forward. I tested a Burris FF for concept, liked it, but still unsure optic choice T1 vs RMR. I am sure the optics technology will catch up.

    I think the Unity is a great concept to test different optics!

    For now that uncertainty means the money goes to iron sight ammo practice and not optics.

    Ps The mount for the FF was kept coming loose under recoil till the screw stripped. It will eventually go to my SIRT pistol for practice.

  4. #4
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    GJM, great report. Thank you for that.

    The Micro does add some weight to the equation and using under-powered ammo may affect it, although we havent had issues with any of our test guns shooting a very wide variety of ammo. Would you please detail the stoppages?

    I would echo Mark's suggestion for either a slightly lighter recoil spring, or move to a Gen 3 RSA. Of course the other option if you intend to always use a T-1 is remove some additional weight from the slide.

    The new sights should be going on the machine this week and I will be sending out sets free of charge to everyone that has a modified slide and would like them. All installations once we have them in hand will have the new sights. They are stainless steel and will be about .37" Above the slide (Whereas ameriglo are .32). - Can you get a sight picture if not using the tritium? With just the Notch / Post?

    Pleasure talking with you yesterday. I am always available if you have any questions / concerns.

    Thank you
    President - Unity Tactical - Innovative. Adaptive. Decisive.

  5. #5
    My G17 functioned fine with a T1 even shooting WWB. That was the prototype with the original modified "sleigh" mount that Mark did based on the original Aimpoint mount. The gun functioned well and the sight worked, the mount just wasn't up to the task. My most recent set up with the T1 on a Unity mount used a brand new Glock slide because the original one was cut up from various prototyping. My current one has some issues that are consistent with many of the newer Gen 3 Glock functioning issues. I know the gun will run right with a T1, I just need to un-do the Glock issues. I need to get an HRED, APEX extractor and the new ejector, so that I can really work with the thing. The nice thing about the Unity mount is you can swap a plate and RMR or just irons on it if you don't like the T1. I do not like tritiums on the BUIS on these because I don't want the distraction with too many dots in the glass. They do sit low in the window of the T1, but they work in the role I want-pure back up. I prefer the T1 to the RMR, and have tried both. I spend a lot of time looking at Aimpoints, so it makes sense. I found the round tube of the T1 is easier to locate the dot than the screen on the RMR. The tube tells your eye where to look.

    Where I see a big advantage to the T1 is running this gun in an offensive capacity. I have been spending so much time trying to get squared away on running my daily carry P30 well that i have sort of avoided going through the great Glock experiment to see what combo of parts will get it to run right. Like I said, being I had no issues with an older slide with a T1 on it before, so I think this is more of a Glock tolerance and MIM part issue.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  6. #6
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    If you need your holster (or box of) tweaked for the T-1 lemme know and we can figure out what to do. I have made considerations for the RMR's you have, not the Micro.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  7. #7
    I have a gen4 17 with the unity tactical mount with a T-1. I've shot only about 500 rounds through it, but have had no malfunctions. I've been shooting Speer lawman 115gr. As for the BUIS I just shoot off the front sight at the bottom of the T-1 tube, it's good enough for a quick A zone hit at about 7 yards.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by goteron View Post
    GJM, great report. Thank you for that.

    The Micro does add some weight to the equation and using under-powered ammo may affect it, although we havent had issues with any of our test guns shooting a very wide variety of ammo. Would you please detail the stoppages?

    I would echo Mark's suggestion for either a slightly lighter recoil spring, or move to a Gen 3 RSA. Of course the other option if you intend to always use a T-1 is remove some additional weight from the slide.

    The new sights should be going on the machine this week and I will be sending out sets free of charge to everyone that has a modified slide and would like them. All installations once we have them in hand will have the new sights. They are stainless steel and will be about .37" Above the slide (Whereas ameriglo are .32). - Can you get a sight picture if not using the tritium? With just the Notch / Post?

    Pleasure talking with you yesterday. I am always available if you have any questions / concerns.

    Thank you
    Thanks to you and Mark Housel -- can't imagine two more customer oriented people.

    The concern isn't just getting the G17 slide with the T1 to minimally function, but wondering whether the weight of the T1 on the slide reduces overall reliability and could rear its head with a stoppage when shooting with a bad grip at a bad time. It would be interesting to add progressively more weight to the slide and figure out when the pistol starts having problems.

    This pistol ran previous to the installation. Post installation, I would get a stoppage about every other round with the Aguila, with the round nose up at an angle. After switching to the Apex extractor, stoppages became less frequent, but still about 1 in 10 rounds. Most of the post Apex stoppages were stovepipes, with the case failing to fully eject, but occasionally a nose stoppage like experienced prior to the Apex extractor.

    The great thing about your installation, is as the technology continues to mature, you can just plug and go with the new optic. Look forward to receiving the new taller tritium iron sights!


    Nyeti, this 17 has the five digit ejector and Apex extractor, and ran fine previously. While the Aguila ammo is somewhat softer, my wife and I ran about 2,000 rounds between us in a day last week with Robert Vogel, and had zero stoppages thru a Gen 3 and 4 Glock 34.

    I think you are making a big mistake forsaking tritium reserve sights. In my experiments finding the dot on a RDS pistol in pitch dark, without tritium sights, is a challenge. In any light, I start my draw with a RDS looking at the iron sights, and that makes the red dot appear predictably. It also allows me to start working the trigger with an iron sight picture, as opposed to waiting to work the trigger after getting the red dot. The way my brain works, as soon as I get the red dot, I don't even notice the iron sights unless I consciously am looking for them -- similar to the iron sight/Aimpoint arrangement on my AR carbines.

    Assuming I can get a reliable model, I am tempted to pull the T1 and replace it with an adjustable RMR in the Atom mount.

  9. #9
    I have had good reliability out of my Gen 3 GL 17 T1 Unity Tactical installations, maybe 2000 rounds total, 1000 through 1 gun, less through the other 2. GL 17s have Vickers slide releases, Sentinel mag wells, Grip Force beavertails, standard triggers.
    Using 50 mags,including 33rd happy sticks, stock GL17 and GL17+2 with 11 coil G22 springs, I have only had problems with 1 mag ( 2 failures to feed) and cleaning cleared that up. Shot mainly Speer Lawnan 115, 124 gr and Federal Estate 115 gr.
    I have not cleaned the guns though they only had 300 rounds each through them before the installations. I have the suppressor sights. Sights cowitness in lower 1/4 of T1, works well.

    The T1 4 moa dot makes 25yd 6"x6" plates easier to hit than Irons. I've found that wobbles/wanks are more apparent. This has helped my iron sight shooting as well.
    At this point I am slower with the dot, I believe this is a training issue. I am faster with irons for close quick precision.
    I started this to maximize the ability to be carbine work with a pistol (which sucks) I think it is good for that. I hope to get faster.

    Work is very good, Mark is good to deal with, I had my 3 slides back in a week.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    My trial G19 is sporting a 4 MOA H1 in a Unity Tactical ATOM mount and Ameriglow black suppressor height BIS. The iron sights are fully visible and useable through the micro-Aimpoint. There have been no malfunctions are other issues over 3000 rounds or so, firing Federal 147 gr FMJ and JHP ammo.


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