"A good shooter with a weak body and weak mind will lose against one who has the physical ability to crush him, and the mental ability to do it repeatedly"
-Kyle Defoor
As this article mentions, the issue has been floating around for a while. One issue is that a lot of fake P-Mags were being produced by foreign manufacturers that looked very much like regular P-Mags. There was/is a similar issue with the Combat Applications Tourniquet ( http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-e...range-1.109797 ) with the forgeries being packaged with photocopies of the real CAT's instruction sheet to include the logo.
Leave it to a government entity to go ahead and throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There are significant problems with the genuine Magpul P-Mag (I should know- I own about twenty and my department issues them to everyone with a rifle). I think banning them for now is a good move. Standard GI spec mags are the way to go for now for anything more than training.Originally Posted by Chemsoldier
Care to elaborate on those problems as I know a lot of guys that go through a lot of rounds using P mags & have never had a single issue.
I too would be interested in some documentation of the issues with PMags (other than the already documented forgeries).
I personally have about 60 or 80 of them, have been using them for about 5 years, and they are issued to everyone (usually in lots of 15 at a time) in my organization of about 800. As the Chief weapons and tactical shooting instructor for these guys, I see 40-50 students 3 weeks out of every month, firing about 3000 rounds per course. To date, the only issues I have seen come up are the usual, "worn out and needed to be replaced" issues from guys trying to save their NIW mags for upcoming deployments, and not wanting to get short changed by the supply system which has no money in the face of the "fiscal cliff".
If there is a genuine problem, I'd be interested in hearing more about it. Especially since I endorse and recommend them as a quality magazine. If I am passing out bad information, I'd like to stop and also retract previous endorsements before it affects someone when it matters.
Last edited by Odin Bravo One; 12-15-2012 at 12:03 AM. Reason: Grammar
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
This sucks because we had a lot of problems with our USGI mags in '08 & our Gunny got us all a shit ton of P mags & the problems went away. I won't use anything else. It's sad that knock offs are keeping a great piece of gear from being utilized.
The biggest issues we've seen have been feed lips deforming and seams coming apart in the rear at the top of the mag when guns are exposed to prolonged heat. Our officers keep their carbines and mags loaded in bags in the trunk of the patrol car (not ideal). It seems the prolonged exposure to heat weakens the mag body just enough where it is barely visible upon inspection, but after a few rounds causes a double-feed. Most of our mags were purchased in 2008 with dozens more purchased in 2010 and later. I also had a few Emags and saw some of the same problems. If this was a problem with one or two mags it would be no big deal. The problem is I'm beginning to see it more frequently.
Some of the smaller issues are mags reliably NOT locking the BCG back on the last round. We also had problems with over-insertion (especially on Bushmasters for some reason) and it was a bitch to get them out. There also is a rib running down the middle of the Pmag that I assume was supposed to help keep the staggered rounds straight. Nice thought, but during the somewhat violent feed cycle...especially on full auto fire...rounds sometimes skip across and lock up the whole mag.
I understand Magpul has dealt with most of these issues on their latest version. Maybe so. I'll let someone else test them out first. Don't get me wrong the GI mags aren't by any means perfect, but I just see less issues with them, especially when they're left loaded over time. I simply trust the GI mag more and think the Pmag has some significant bugs to get worked out. I personally only use Pmags for training for now. I've had great luck with the D&H GI mags with Magpul followers and that's what I recommend for any real world use.
Interesting. Our mags have also had a history of being exposed to some warmer environments. I will look specifically for some of the issues you described, but haven't noticed them to date. Thanks for providing that info.
Something for folks to keep an eye on anyway. I'll be sure to add it to the list of things to take a look at.
As for the over insertion issue on Bushmasters....................nevermind.......... ...I think it's pretty clear around here how I feel about Bushmaster/Windham Weaponry rifles.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
Sean, have you tried other polymer mags?
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#RESIST
I totally agree about the Bushmasters. Unfortunately long ago when policy was written no one excluded them (or Stag, DPMS and other questionable folks).
Let me know if you see any of the seam separation/double-feed issues if you don't mind. I'm trying to keep track of it. Dean Caputo at Colt and some other folks are keeping an eye on it as well. My personal opinion is that it's caused by the mags being baked in patrol car trunks or when left for months/years in the passenger compartment in the sun.
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