Non political disucussion about states with looming AWBs

[Suvorov]

Congrats guys but never let your guard down. It’s not over yet.

With 20 years of living in Kalifornia - I am all too aware of this fact.

Unless the makeup of the Colorado legislature changes drastically this November, it will be back.

I was expecting them to try to slip it through Cumo style at the last minute.

Maybe they still have a sneaky trick up there sleeves?

[Oldherkpilot]

Im curious to know if there is or will be some legal way to modify an AR type rifle to be manually operated, such as in England. The question about how stripped lowers would be classified in a ban state brought this back to mind.

Rather than turn in, register, or otherwise remove a given individual gun if affected by a ban or restriction, is/will/would there be a recognized way to modify it in some legally acceptable way to make it manually operated. The Ruger precision rifle would be confused with ARs to most people, but its not affected by any of the bans that Im aware of even with all the otherwise bad features since its manually operated and not easily converted to semi auto.

My gunsmith buddy built a manual AR in .300 BO for the ultimate suppressed repeater. He showed it to me and explained it but I only remember the basics. He started with an upper with a left side charging handle. Cut quite a bit of the aft end of the bolt carrier off. Obviously, got rid of the gas port. No buffer tube or spring required, so it was perfect for a folding stock. When he shot it, two things stood out. One, man was it quiet and two, it was a lot faster to operate than I'd anticipated. I would hazard a guess that you could block the gas port and turn your AR into a manual repeater. But I'm also pretty sure they'd never let you keep it.

[whomever]

... I would hazard a guess that you could block the gas port and turn your AR into a manual repeater. ...

I've thought about that. Mechanically it makes a lot of sense. Legally ... it seems pretty gray. Many AWB's specifically ban 'AR-15' rifles. Consider these two phrasings:

"An assault weapon is a semiauto that is on the list below, or anything with the following features..."

"An assault weapon is anything on the list below, or any semiauto with the following features..."

You take something everyone agrees is an AR-15 and install an unvented sleeve in place of the gas block (and side charger, ...). I would argue that is legal under the first definition, because it is no longer a semi, but banned under the second, because it is still an 'AR-15', just with a couple of missing parts. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

It's all pretty muddy. There are turnbolt uppers:

https://uintahprecision.com/product/upr15/

Their FAQ section says "Our bolt uppers boast 50-state compliance, going beyond being just a mere accessory for compliance purposes. Our authentic bolt action upper is engineered to perfectly complement your mil-spec AR15 lower"

That kind of surprises me. The upper ought to be legal, but I think in most ban states you go to jail even for a bare AR lower - it seems odd putting that upper on one now makes it legal.

Even if you buy the whole rifle from them, you now have a legal bolt lower that is identical to an illegal semi lower. Which kind of shows how weird all this can get.

I try to be really careful legally; I think if I was buying any of the not-a-semi AR variants I'd A)read my state law really carefully and B)probably try and buy a complete rifle through an in state FFL.


(as an aside, I do like those kinds of rifles. A lot of the objection to ARs (and not, e.g., Mini-14's) is people's gut reaction based on cosmetics. A couple years ago the Million Moms sent out a picture showing one of the evil rifles that needed to be banned ... but the pic was of Ruger's precision rimfire, wich is a black rifle looking 22LR turnbolt. The more people see modern looking rifles the better)

[Suvorov]

I've thought about that. Mechanically it makes a lot of sense. Legally ... it seems pretty gray. Many AWB's specifically ban 'AR-15' rifles. Consider these two phrasings:

"An assault weapon is a semiauto that is on the list below, or anything with the following features..."

"An assault weapon is anything on the list below, or any semiauto with the following features..."

You take something everyone agrees is an AR-15 and install an unvented sleeve in place of the gas block (and side charger, ...). I would argue that is legal under the first definition, because it is no longer a semi, but banned under the second, because it is still an 'AR-15', just with a couple of missing parts. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

By making a rifle a straight pull it no longer has the features of an assault rifle. Given the abundance of lower receiver markings out there it is virtually impossible for the writers of these laws to list every single one and even if they did, wait one week and someone will make a “off list lower.” Make a straight pull rifle on an unlisted lower and you do not have an AW.

This is all well treaded territory in California which thought they had stopped evil rifles with their infamous AWB and still serves as the base for other state laws.

[camel]

By making a rifle a straight pull it no longer has the features of an assault rifle. Given the abundance of lower receiver markings out there it is virtually impossible for the writers of these laws to list every single one and even if they did, wait one week and someone will make a “off list lower.” Make a straight pull rifle on an unlisted lower and you do not have an AW.

This is all well treaded territory in California which thought they had stopped evil rifles with their infamous AWB and still serves as the base for other state laws.

Thanks for the info.

[Suvorov]

Thanks for the info.

You possibly could be jacked by an ignorant LEO and have to get it back but at least in California, the rifle is 100% legal.

It really would be good for anyone stuck with this kind of legislation to visit CALGUNS and read about the progression of how the AWB was worked around.

ETA - this lays out the various iterations of AWBs that befell Californians and how they countered them. It should give people an idea of what they can and can not do and what has already been tried. While each state will have its own nuances in their bans, they all see to be based on California’s 2000 AWB and follow on bans. AFAIK - no state AWBs apply to non-semiautomatic rifles unless they are .50 Cal.

[Bucky]

I've thought about that. Mechanically it makes a lot of sense. Legally ... it seems pretty gray. Many AWB's specifically ban 'AR-15' rifles. Consider these two phrasings:

"An assault weapon is a semiauto that is on the list below, or anything with the following features..."

"An assault weapon is anything on the list below, or any semiauto with the following features..."

You take something everyone agrees is an AR-15 and install an unvented sleeve in place of the gas block (and side charger, ...). I would argue that is legal under the first definition, because it is no longer a semi, but banned under the second, because it is still an 'AR-15', just with a couple of missing parts. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

If I recall correctly, the workaround to the list was how NJ folks were able to purchase Colt “Sporting Rifles”. No where on it did if say AR. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if they went to great lengths to ensure no serial numbers contained “ar”.

Ironically, I think the ‘94 federal AWB created the ground work for “Sporting Rifle” ownership”.

Unfortunately, I do believe that a ban on all semiautomatic rifles is a matter of when, not if.

[Rex G]

We are well-set. The AR/M4 system is totally optional, for us. We have several, but do not “need” them.

Benelli M2, 12 gauge. (Have two, one with ghost ring sights. Realistically, I could get by, with just these, as my only defensive long guns.)

Glock, G26 and G30. (Standard magazines are ten-round. Have multiples of both.)

Winchester 94. (Have several, .30 WCF and .45 Colt.)

Ruger No. 1 Single-Shot. (Have several, .357 Magnum, .45-70 Government, and .375 H&H. Bison may attack!)

Browning BLR. (Have Lightning and Takedown versions. .308 Winchester.)

1911 pistols. (Have several.)

Assorted revolving pistols, on-hand, too, from .22 LR to .45 Colt.

This is not a complete list; just utilitarian stuff to weapons with some defensive potential.