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Thread: Well THAT Was Easy!

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    First - decide between a trust or a personal transfer. Trusts are awesome if you want to be able to allow a spouse or heir access to that NFA item without you present, and also simplify them inheriting it when the time comes. If that's a lesser concern, personal transfer is super easy these days.
    My interest level here is low, only maybe contemplating a can or two, and probably do not have the appetite for the extra hoops for an SBR. I have no kids, and my wife is not much of a shooter, so somebody inheriting my treasures is not that big a deal. I do not plan to invest enough money to make it something to worry about.

    It is my understanding that I can still sell them if I no longer need or want them, but if I own them and croak suddenly my wife cannot. If they are required to be surrendered what is the process? Must they be surrendered directly to BATF? At a field office? How soon? Can a dealer take them? Is it legal for her to transport them? I am feeling fine and plan to continue shooting for a long time, but would not want to create a scenario where MrsMMc is expected to meet federal agents at her home (or drive over to Columbus) the next morning if I might wake up dead someday.

  2. #42
    Site Supporter Sero Sed Serio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    @Sero Sed Serio thanks for the details reply. @JRB also. Much appreciated.

    I wasn't aware that amending to add trustees was still viable without said trustee(s) submitting photos and FPs also. I also didn't even consider making her a successor trustee, that may be the route to go. I'll double check the details in triplicate when I do the deed.
    You’re welcome!

    Just remember: as long as she is a successor trustee, she cannot legally possess trust property outside your presence until the triggering event for her to succeed you (typically death or incapacity) occurs, and she takes over as trustee. This is fine if you just want her to inherit, but no bueno if you want to keep a suppressed SBR at her place in case of zombies. Listing her as successor trustee, then amending the trust to make her a full trustee once the items are out of NFA jail is acceptable, too, and avoids her having to submit prints/photos (note: any new NFA purchases once she is a full trustee will require her prints/photos).

  3. #43
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    I’ve heard some people remove trustees during a purchase and add them back later to avoid having multiple RPs.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    My interest level here is low, only maybe contemplating a can or two, and probably do not have the appetite for the extra hoops for an SBR. I have no kids, and my wife is not much of a shooter, so somebody inheriting my treasures is not that big a deal. I do not plan to invest enough money to make it something to worry about.

    It is my understanding that I can still sell them if I no longer need or want them, but if I own them and croak suddenly my wife cannot. If they are required to be surrendered what is the process? Must they be surrendered directly to BATF? At a field office? How soon? Can a dealer take them? Is it legal for her to transport them? I am feeling fine and plan to continue shooting for a long time, but would not want to create a scenario where MrsMMc is expected to meet federal agents at her home (or drive over to Columbus) the next morning if I might wake up dead someday.
    SBR is exactly the same number of hoops, unless you're regularly transporting them interstate.

    If you croak suddenly, any lawful inheritor of your NFA items can receive them on a tax-free Form 5 transfer. Those go pretty fast.
    If you're worried about it, pre-fill a Form 5 with all of your inheritor's information and leave a list of instructions. They will need to do the fingerprints and passport photo though. Possession/transport/etc is technically a grey area until the Form 5 transfer is complete. Some SOT's offer storage of NFA items if MrsMMC was particularly concerned about it until the transfer was complete.
    That said, having asked this question directly of a ATF IOI, he essentially said 'We've got actual bad guys to worry about, just leave them in the safe until the Form 5's come back'.

  5. #45
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    SBR is exactly the same number of hoops, unless you're regularly transporting them interstate.

    If you croak suddenly, any lawful inheritor of your NFA items can receive them on a tax-free Form 5 transfer. Those go pretty fast.
    If you're worried about it, pre-fill a Form 5 with all of your inheritor's information and leave a list of instructions. They will need to do the fingerprints and passport photo though. Possession/transport/etc is technically a grey area until the Form 5 transfer is complete. Some SOT's offer storage of NFA items if MrsMMC was particularly concerned about it until the transfer was complete.
    That said, having asked this question directly of a ATF IOI, he essentially said 'We've got actual bad guys to worry about, just leave them in the safe until the Form 5's come back'.
    I’ve never done individual. What are the SBR/SBS engraving requirements?
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    I’ve never done individual. What are the SBR/SBS engraving requirements?
    Engraving only applies if you're the manufacturer of an an SBR on a Form 1. As an individual it'd just be your name and city/state (IIRC, I've never done that either).

    If you Form 4 transfer a factory/already made SBR to yourself it's just like a suppressor, no engraving requirement.

  7. #47
    Site Supporter CleverNickname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    I’ve never done individual. What are the SBR/SBS engraving requirements?
    27 CFR 479.102

    tl;dr Minimum depth of .003 inch, minimum height of 1/16", engrave the receiver (this changed a few years ago, it used to be OK to engrave either the barrel or receiver), and you engrave the applicant's name (from box 3b on the F1) and the city & state where the firearm was made.

    While an electropencil or something will technically work, it'll look terrible, so just send your receiver to any number of FFLs who advertise engraving services. You're in Central Texas, right? There's going to be enough people in your area who want this service that there's probably a few FFLs local-ish to you where you could drop it off and pick it up a few days later, or they might even do it while you wait.

  8. #48
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    Engraving only applies if you're the manufacturer of an an SBR on a Form 1. As an individual it'd just be your name and city/state (IIRC, I've never done that either).

    If you Form 4 transfer a factory/already made SBR to yourself it's just like a suppressor, no engraving requirement.
    So basically the same as the trust requirements I’ve done, but with my name instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickname View Post
    27 CFR 479.102

    tl;dr Minimum depth of .003 inch, minimum height of 1/16", engrave the receiver (this changed a few years ago, it used to be OK to engrave either the barrel or receiver), and you engrave the applicant's name (from box 3b on the F1) and the city & state where the firearm was made.

    While an electropencil or something will technically work, it'll look terrible, so just send your receiver to any number of FFLs who advertise engraving services. You're in Central Texas, right? There's going to be enough people in your area who want this service that there's probably a few FFLs local-ish to you where you could drop it off and pick it up a few days later, or they might even do it while you wait.
    I actually have a decent NFA engraver in McGregor I’ve used a few times. I had a phenomenal one in NH that was recommended by SIG, but he only does (or did) walk-in work without taking possession of the item being engraved.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    SBR is exactly the same number of hoops, unless you're regularly transporting them interstate.
    Yup, exactly. I live about 40min from Indiana and about 60min from Kentucky, and there might be better shooting opportunities in both of those places, so I am less horny to do an SBR. And I might consider a pin and weld 300BO maybe. Or the integral 10/22 barrel.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    If you croak suddenly, any lawful inheritor of your NFA items can receive them on a tax-free Form 5 transfer. Those go pretty fast.
    If you're worried about it, pre-fill a Form 5 with all of your inheritor's information and leave a list of instructions. They will need to do the fingerprints and passport photo though. Possession/transport/etc is technically a grey area until the Form 5 transfer is complete. Some SOT's offer storage of NFA items if MrsMMC was particularly concerned about it until the transfer was complete.
    That said, having asked this question directly of a ATF IOI, he essentially said 'We've got actual bad guys to worry about, just leave them in the safe until the Form 5's come back'.
    Yeah, all stuff I wouldn't want her to be screwing with over ~$1500 worth of her dead husband's toys. In my case the FFL/SOT would be a buddy, so if/when I get closer I am sure I could work it out.
    ETA: Also simpler if I am only talking about a couple of cans that wouldn't be worth that much. If you had a bunch of expensive SBR engraved guns that would probably justify the trust, even if just to remove any urgency.

  10. #50
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    Yup, exactly. I live about 40min from Indiana and about 60min from Kentucky, and there might be better shooting opportunities in both of those places, so I am less horny to do an SBR. And I might consider a pin and weld 300BO maybe. Or the integral 10/22 barrel.
    All you need to do is file the forms for the SBS - they can be good for up to 12 months. Redo them every year on your birthday or something.

    I haven’t bothered yet since there isn’t anyplace I would be taking a NFA item.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

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