G19- still the standard?

[WDR]

I just stopped by the LGS to pick something up, and asked them about the 365 vs Glock pistol sales. They said they sell six 365 pistols for every Glock 19 and 10 365 pistols for every 43/48 they sell.

I believe it. Sig really has kicked Glocks ass on the 9mm "slim" guns, both in form/capacity, and marketing them. It doesn't hurt that they seem to work pretty dang well, and are shootable for lots of folks.

When S&W eventually released the 4in/15rnd Goldilocks was when I (Gasp!!!) sold all of my Glocks.

The M&P, and the Sig 320, both would be top competitors to knock the Glock 19 off its pillar. If the M&P 1.0 9mm's hadn't had the accuracy issues, and the Sig 320's hadn't had the drop safety issue, I think either one could have really taken the spotlight.

[Noah]

I *can* conceal it under a T-shirt... but its not optimal concealment gear. Mission drives the gear train. I'm willing to "dress around the gun" when I have to. Sometimes getting made matters more than wearing fitted clothing. And sometimes you have to use a smaller gun and deal with the consequences. Concealment is just one factor here. But that is neither here nor there because PLENTY of folks can conceal a Glock 19 just fine... And the question at hand was if it was king of the hill as far as a "one gun to do it all" option. I think it still is.

<shrugs>

I disagree that the P365 is the new Glock 19, simply because it's easier to conceal under a T-shirt. IMHO, the P365 series guns are not "duty" guns, simply because they are not "full size" frames so they don't really belong "there". Not that they are not good guns, or couldn't be pressed into duty uses, especially in a concealed role. But that's like, my opinion, man.

I guess I am not thinking from a duty gun perspective. A 365 or other slimline is not a duty gun. I’m thinking from only civilian concealed carry and home defense role, and range training/light competition. All open carry applications (duty or otherwise) just aren’t relevant to me and a lot of other people for defensive use. . For all “daily concealed self defense tasks” I think the slimlines make the most sense for many people. They’re not an OWB duty gun or USPSA gun, but there’s nothing wrong with either of those things. I can’t imagine recommending someone try to conceal a full width double stack without it completely revamping their wardrobe.

If it’s also a USPSA gun and/or duty gun, double stack Glocks (including a 19) are my pick. A Macro really blurs the lines but I’m just an SCD or hammer stickler. Don’t like safeties (for me) or “naked” strikers.

[G19Fan]

I *can* conceal it under a T-shirt... but its not optimal concealment gear. Mission drives the gear train. I'm willing to "dress around the gun" when I have to. Sometimes getting made matters more than wearing fitted clothing. And sometimes you have to use a smaller gun and deal with the consequences. Concealment is just one factor here. But that is neither here nor there because PLENTY of folks can conceal a Glock 19 just fine... And the question at hand was if it was king of the hill as far as a "one gun to do it all" option. I think it still is.

<shrugs>

I disagree that the P365 is the new Glock 19, simply because it's easier to conceal under a T-shirt. IMHO, the P365 series guns are not "duty" guns, simply because they are not "full size" frames so they don't really belong "there". Not that they are not good guns, or couldn't be pressed into duty uses, especially in a concealed role. But that's like, my opinion, man.

Most ccw doesn't need a duty gun

I do have seperate comp.and training vs carry guns

[WDR]

I guess I am not thinking from a duty gun perspective. A 365 or other slimline is not a duty gun. I’m thinking from only civilian concealed carry and home defense role, and range training/light competition. All open carry applications (duty or otherwise) just aren’t relevant to me and a lot of other people for defensive use. . For all “daily concealed self defense tasks” I think the slimlines make the most sense for many people. They’re not an OWB duty gun or USPSA gun, but there’s nothing wrong with either of those things. I can’t imagine recommending someone try to conceal a full width double stack without it completely revamping their wardrobe.

"Duty" was part of the premise of this thread, but I think we all at least consider concealment a lot more seriously "here" than your average joe "out there" so we trend to drift that way and weight that requirement more than the other two (Duty and Home Defense). Clearly, a smaller gun might make sense for most folks to carry. My argument is that it falls a bit into the "carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable" sort of mindset. I'm a bit like Lost River in that I want to carry a gun that'd I'd be comfortable getting into a real fight with, so I default to bigger guns, more ammo, easier to shoot well. If I can manage to conceal a Glock 19, most folks could do it as well, with minimal effort. Yes, folks might have to change their wardrobe to truly conceal and live with a Glock 19. It's a decision we all make, and thankfully there are a lot of other options out there too.

The bolded part is of course true for most folks. There is a reason the 365 sells so well. Many people buy and carry these guns a lot and shoot them very little. Not very many of them actually USE them for their intended purpose in that role. But I also think most folks would be better served with a bigger, easier to shoot gun, when the balloon goes up. They pays their money and takes their chances.

The Glock 19 can be shoehorned into duty, concealment, and home defense use, and serve almost equally well in any of those roles (again, you might have to wear that button up)... the same can't be said for the P365, or my 3" 60-10 J-frame .357, or a 6" Model 29. Any of them could do in a pinch, and I'd give the 365 the nod over either of the other two, but a Glock 19 still makes the most sense as a jack of all trades.

[mmc45414]

I just stopped by the LGS to pick something up, and asked them about the 365 vs Glock pistol sales. They said they sell six 365 pistols for every Glock 19 and 10 365 pistols for every 43/48 they sell.

The interesting but unobtainable data point(s) would be to know how many of those 6/1 365 buyers already have a G19 and how many of those 1/6 G19 buyers are newbies.
After nearly forty years the G19 market might be slowing a bit from saturation.

I can’t imagine recommending someone try to conceal a full width double stack without it completely revamping their wardrobe.

My routine is that when I go to shoot, I carry the gun I am planning to shoot. For the past several years this has typically been one of my full size 5in M&P9s, and it is NBD to conceal. In the past this had occasionally been a 5in XD-45 (the one that held fourteen rounds...), and that was a big honker and did take a little extra effort. But that is typically one day a week, and it is simple to grab something like a Dickies shirt or fleece vest to get there and back.

There is a reason the 365 sells so well. Many people buy and carry these guns a lot and shoot them very little. Not very many of them actually USE them for their intended purpose in that role. But I also think most folks would be better served with a bigger, easier to shoot gun, when the balloon goes up. They pays their money and takes their chances.

The Glock 19 can be shoehorned into duty, concealment, and home defense use, and serve almost equally well in any of those roles (again, you might have to wear that button up)... the same can't be said for the P365, or my 3" 60-10 J-frame .357, or a 6" Model 29. Any of them could do in a pinch, and I'd give the 365 the nod over either of the other two, but a Glock 19 still makes the most sense as a jack of all trades.

Yup, the quandary is what to recommend to new people. And many of them have not done any more than a familiarity fire, and they do not know what they want or need. The majority of those people are also not going to carry anything unless they think there is a reason, so in their case they would be better off with one of the Goldilocks guns, because they can learn to shoot it easier, and when they do have the reason that urges them to get their kit on, owning one baggy shirt is not a big deal. But all of those people are going to buy something slim (or worse) and never shoot it, or go shoot it once and never shoot it again (I am looking at you, Mister LCP...). Prolly gonna carry Condition 3 also.
But in my case I have a spectrum that goes from 5in/17+1 (to and from the range), down to 4in/15+1 (going to buy something with cash from Marketplace, but was EDC), and then down to a Shield Plus (typical EDC), and prior to the Shield Plus(s) entering my life one of the J-frames got a lot more carry. But I am one of the people that shoots at least once almost every week and am comfortable with what I can accomplish with the Shield Plus (I always knew I am making big compromises with the J-frame). But somebody that might need the One Gun Standard probably doesn't have so many choices.

[rob_s]

Compared to a Glock 19, lots of guns are easier to shoot well and conceal. What makes Glocks the "AR-15 of handguns" to me is they combine reliability, durability, simplicity, ease of service and troubleshooting, parts availability, industry support, and magazine compatibility with larger Glocks. As well, the Glock platform has a long history, so you know what you're getting and that the model will be around long term.

Even if someone else were better in every internal aspect today (somehow less expensive, more modular, smaller, lighter, more accurate, easier to shoot, with greater capacity, more reliable, fewer parts, easier to takedown, both larger and smaller options that take the same mag and fit the same holsters, etc.) the legacy (parts, commonality, holsters, accessories, the aftermarket in general, market familiarity, etc.) would take decades to unravel.

[BillSWPA]

I am a slightly below average size dude who can conceal a full size 1911 under a polo style shirt when I want to do so. I can do it because every single pair of pants I own has been purchased with IWB carry in mind. Every single pair of dress slacks is also purchased taking pocket carry into account, although not for a 1911. Every time I buy a polo style shirt, jacket, or sweater, I take into account its ability to hide a gun.

Concealing the gun is not as simple as buying a baggy shirt.

The new shooter buying their first gun will get there eventually, but is not there when buying their first or second gun. Recommending a gun that they cannot hide with the clothing they currently own is a good way to ensure that they do not carry it.

[No.6]

I'm going through that thought process with my Beretta PX4. I have the compact version, but my pinkie wraps around the front of the magazine floorplate. And it is not causing any problems. I am contemplating the full-size version for the slightly longer grip. The compact is a 9mm and the full-size would be as well. Truth be known, I am just rationalizing to justify another purchase.

I keep adding this to PX4 discussions but I'll do it again https://www.beretta.com/en-us/produc...tension-E02574 is like the 19x of the PX4 world. 2 more rounds and, particularly for those who want the bit more real estate, more grip surface. Just a couple minutes to switch (or switch back, if you don't like it).

Not that it should stop you from another PX4, but if all you want is grip area, it's $20.

[LockedBreech]

If I won a coupon or raffle for a free pistol, and my choices were between a G19 and an M&Pc 2.0, I would not hesitate one moment in picking the Smith. If it didn't have the MS, I'd add it. I'd really dig an aluminum frame with the MS!


Come to think of it, my twin P250c's with WC grip modules are in this same envelope (3.9"/15rnd), and are hammer-fired DAO to boot!. Trigger reach is just a tad long....I wish I could find a couple of short-reach triggers (SIG used to make them). The main reason I don't carry it anymore is that the slides are so much fatter than my 1911's or BHP. I do still carry it in uniform, though.

Weep for humanity that the P250 didn't get more credit when it came out. Like the 92D, it's amazing at being what it is.

[HeavyDuty]

Weep for humanity that the P250 didn't get more credit when it came out. Like the 92D, it's amazing at being what it is.

I’d still like to learn more about the P250, I remember when they were new and hit the gun rags. I know there are at least two major generations and (knowing SIG) about 32,871 running production changes. Does the P250 FCG work with the Wilson Combat grip modules?