G19- still the standard?

[HCM]

That's a fair point. Probably the better question is, are the guns the same as the ones a regular Joe picks up at a Cabelas or do they have better sourced parts and better qa/qc, etc.?

A few years back, a friend of mine invited me to the gun show and a subsequent lunch with one of the guys who worked at Altoona and I ***think*** worked on the original acquisition (could be wrong). He was a cool guy and definitely liked the company. Mr. Cohen this. Mr. Cohen that. Very respectful and formal...nothing bad to say. But when I asked him something similar to the above question he just smiled and that was that.

The 365 series guns were originally approved for open / commercial sourcing for POW use. The requirement for POWs to be W sku guns was implemented after QC issues encountered with commercial guns. So…

[Jay585]

That covers a large number of potential purchasers. As to whether the “W” SKU guns have better QC or use parts from different vendors than the normal commercial guns, I haven’t a clue.

I read an interesting blog post regarding that

https://apiprodigy.com/2023/11/02/la...et-the-le-sku/

You have to have the LEM model for duty usage. Make sure you are buying the LEM model, and from an authorized Holosun LE dealer; for the best performance and reliability. As rugged and reliable as the standard Holosuns are, the LEM models are much more so.

SIG Sauer has an entire LE division, and line of products. Their LE SKU’s are built to an exacting standard. They are tested and the results are documented prior to leaving the factory. One of the largest law enforcement agencies in the US to issue Sig takes the LE SKU so seriously, that in order for individual agents to carry a personally owned Sig, it must have a LE SKU, AND come from an authorized Sig Law Enforcement Dealer (SLED).

Smith & Wesson and Glock both have LE SKU’s. There is a lot more to those guns than a spare magazine. They come with better quality small parts, more attention in the assembly process, and more vetting prior to leaving the factory.

Trijicon, Surefire, Aimpoint, and HK do not differentiate between end users. If you buy a product from them, you may be getting one from the same batch that is going to a Tier 1 counter terrorist unit. They use the same standards and testing for everything they make; the price and delivery times also reflect this.

[zaitcev]

What about some other comparisons?

- Cost (including magazines /parts / other accessories)
- Reliability (including long-term)
- User maintainable (ease of parts replacement)
- Shootabiliity

Cost is better for G19 if you include Gen3 clones. I think it's a wash for OEM Glocks.

Reliability... P365 beats the pants of single stack Glocks, but of course G19 is solid.
The word "long-term" seems like durability may be in question in addition to reliability?
In that case I'm ignorant. I don't have a G19 that's beyond 3,000 rounds.
Other posters on P-F claimed to possess a P365 that took in excess of 40,000 rounds.
It's basically on par with Px4 despite being this dainty. Wonders of Cohen's regime!

In the area of user maintenance, G19 is ahead for many reasons. It's better understood
in general. Again, sticking to Gen3 opens many doors that SIG cannot reach. Glock
also did many things to refine the design, such as replacing wire and flat springs with
coil springs.

Shootability is very personal. I much prefer the P365. On most Glocks before Gen5,
the edges of the butt cut painfully into my fingers as soon as I start to apply a proper
crush grip. P365 has a more oblong shape that allows me to hold the gun tighter.
In a self-defense situation it does not matter, but it matters in training a great deal.
In addition, the inside of G19 trigger guard rubs my index finger raw. Before I started
running P365, I had a good callus there. But all of it depends on hand shape, so
probably does not apply to others.

[WobblyPossum]

I read an interesting blog post regarding that

https://apiprodigy.com/2023/11/02/la...et-the-le-sku/

Pretty informative article. Thanks. Just to quickly address one thing:

One of the largest law enforcement agencies in the US to issue Sig takes the LE SKU so seriously, that in order for individual agents to carry a personally owned Sig, it must have a LE SKU, AND come from an authorized Sig Law Enforcement Dealer (SLED). That agency is also the largest institutional user of pistol mounted optics in US law enforcement, and they issue Sig Electro Optics (specifically the Romeo1 Pro and Romeo 2). Those optics carry an LE SKU. That may be a clue.

The author is on the right track but the truth is actually even more restrictive than what’s described here. The only way a personally owned P320 is authorized at the referenced agency is if it’s one of a handful of specific SKUs that aren’t available for commercial sale at all to customers who aren’t employees of the agency. The guns are built to the specific agency contract spec. They have a certain serial number prefix to denote that. Guns that don’t have that SN prefix won’t be approved for duty use at all, regardless of whether or not they have the LE SKU on the box. There are two distributors who carry these guns so the only way to get one is to buy it from one of them after the buyer shows they’re an employee of the agency in question.

[Trajan]

43 and 43X (after multiple tries/design changes). I don’t know that the Shield was ever tested.

Do you know what was changed?

Only issue I've seen with the 43 was a batch of Talos models in early 2016 with the lighter connector not resetting in recoil.

[Biggy]

I will always have at least one Glock 19, currently a Gen 5, and will probably get a Gen 6 when it comes out. I think even today when many other striker pistols have probably caught up to it and even surpassed it in some areas. I still trust a Glock 19 to be more reliable out of the box over other striker fired pistols, like buy a new one at the gun shop, load the mags, no oiling it, just stick it in the holster and betting my life on it. While my other pistols, like my P365 Macro XL does carry noticeably better, my CZ P10c, CZ P-07's and my CZ P-01 Omega have all been 100% reliable and accurate, they have less rounds through them and therefore at this point I just have more trust built up in the G19. I also prefer to have a SCD on my striker fired pistols if possible ( like Glock and soon the CZ) or second to have a manual thumb safety on it if there is no SCD option. And if I could just have one it would still be the Gen 5 G19 , even with it's somewhat flawed grip angle (for me) and it's less than ideal stock grip ergo's, all because it's reliability, durability, simplicity and accuracy have been proven over time.

[HeavyDuty]

This thread made me doublecheck that both of my non-range P320s are W prefix - they are. That was intentional…

[TC215]

Do you know what was changed?

Only issue I've seen with the 43 was a batch of Talos models in early 2016 with the lighter connector not resetting in recoil.

I think I knew at one point, but the only thing I remember now is changes to the magazines.

[HCM]

Do you know what was changed?

Only issue I've seen with the 43 was a batch of Talos models in early 2016 with the lighter connector not resetting in recoil.

Among other things:,

Multiple changes to mags and followers.

The breech face cut now common across the Gen 5 guns originated in the G43/43X changes resulting from that agency testing /development.

How big is your sample size of G43s? We unfortunately authorized them without testing and before we deauthorized them (after actual testing) it was rare for me see one make it through a 50 round qualification course without a malfunction. In fairness the slim Glocks seem to do better with standard velocity ammunition and we only run +p or equivalent training ammo.

[Trajan]

Among other things:,

Multiple changes to mags and followers.

The breech face cut now common across the Gen 5 guns originated in the G43/43X changes resulting from that agency testing /development.

How big is your sample size of G43s? We unfortunately authorized them without testing and before we deauthorized them (after actual testing) it was rare for me see one make it through a 50 round qualification course without a malfunction. In fairness the slim Glocks seem to do better with standard velocity ammunition and we only run +p or equivalent training ammo.

Ah, I just checked my 43 and it doesn't have that cut.

Not sure on the number, 40ish probably. This was 2015-2016 when I worked at a sister company of an indoor range. I don't recall anyone having issues with the 43 or the 42 assuming they weren't using freedom munitions.

My personal 43 has never had a malfunction or issue that I can remember, but it has limited 124+p on it as shortly after getting it I transitioned away from 124+P GDs to 147 Ranger-Ts and HSTs.

It's getting a KKM barrel soon so it'll be interesting to see if anything changes. This is one of the first runs, and still on it's original RSA. Probably needs changed at this point.