SHTF AR 10 or AR 15?

[msstate56]

Seems like you want a .308. Just get one.

ETA: I have a .308 AR10, I’m not saying they’re bad, but I haven’t shot mine in years. I shoot a 5.56 weekly.

[Robert Mitchum]

Heya @Robert Mitchum,
Did your Daniel Defense carbine arrive yet? Seems to me that you ought to have a really good answer to your question in that one.

Yes !!!! the trigger is better than my Super duty ... both have the same trigger, but the DD guys must have added some magic sauce.

[Beat Trash]

I own and train with a Geissele Super Duty and a DDM4V7 and a Smith & Wesson MP-15TS 5.56mm.

You did not read what I wrote I said I had a lot of range and defensive ammo in 223/556 on hand.

I used a DDM4V7 as my Patrol Rifle at work for my last few years prior to retirement. I own a few of them now. The DDV7 can surprise you with the right optics and a good heavy weight round. We issued the Winchester Ranger 64 gr bonded round loaded to 5.56mm pressure. I participated in three ballistic workshops where this round was tested. It's impressive...

The 77 gr OTM is also a good round for what you're asking the gun to do for you.

Something like your DDV7 or the Gisele Super Duty with good ammunition and I feel you'd be ok during a SHTF incident.

I personally don't see the need for you to go with an AR10.

[HCM]

Reading the whole article, John goes on to talk about pest control on his ranch/farm, not hunting. I'd quote more of it, but I'm not certain it's appropriate. He does mention having to shoot a fox (it was raiding his feed bin or something like that) 3 times with a 5.56, even though the first two hits were in the vitals (according to him).

And since OP said "Live in a Rual area open space westside farmland not in use." this information seemed applicable to his surroundings.

If you read the article, the ammunition he was using in the 556 was not appropriate for medium size game. Ammunition selection for a small caliber is certainly more critical than a larger caliber.

Almost seems like he was looking for evidence to support a conclusion.

I own and train with a Geissele Super Duty and a DDM4V7 and a Smith & Wesson MP-15TS 5.56mm.

You did not read what I wrote I said I had a lot of range and defensive ammo in 223/556 on hand.

OK so you have 3 good 5.56 AR’s and a bunch of ammo.

I would not be buying any more guns for your stated purpose.

AR 15 magazines are consumables. I would want to have between 60 and 100 magazines to go with those three guns, I’m not gonna use all of them at once but again consumables.

Beyond that, I want “enablers.” Especially night time enablers.

I want optics, slings, and white lights for all three guns.

I want night vision either a PVS-14 or a set of dual tubes. And I want at least one of my rifles set up with an appropriate IR aiming laser, if not all 3.

Night vision does not have to be crazy expensive and you don’t need a full power laser. The civilian powered lasers from Holosun, Steiner, EoTech etc are fine for realistic uses. You should be able to find a decent PVS 14 in the two to $3000 range. You can get decent dual tube night vision somewhere between 4000 and $7000.

In the land of the blind men, the one eyed man is king.

A handheld or weapon mounted thermal is worth considering as well but can be pricey.

Up to you if you want to spend the extra money and extra weight for a ballistic helmet for the night vision or a bump helmet.

I want a set of good quality rifle rated plates that will stop 556 green tip and a low visibility carrier.

https://www.optactical.com/spthar.html


You’re gonna wanna stock up on a mix of rechargeable and lithium batteries for the above list that items.

That presumes, you have solar, chargers or generators.

[Robert Mitchum]

Should the SHTF/EOTWAWKI happen, social connections will be far more important than firepower. Having some sort of association with a local community for mutual aid & defense will be more of an asset than what caliber you have in your gun.

I will just say people in Tennessee stick together I will be far from alone if things go south.

Very good personal friends with William Lamberth he was my next-door neighbor for 10 years until he moved have meet the Governor, I am not a lone wolf scared older guy living in a dream world.

[Robert Mitchum]

OK so you have 3 good 5.56 AR’s and a bunch of ammo.

I would not be buying any more guns for your stated purpose.

AR 15 magazines are consumables. I would want to have between 60 and 100 magazines to go with those three guns, I’m not gonna use all of them at once but again consumables.

Beyond that, I want “enablers.”

I want optics, slings, and white lights for all three guns.

I want night vision either a PVS-14 or a set of dual tubes. And I want at least one of my rifles set up with an appropriate IR aiming laser, if not all 3.

Night vision does not have to be crazy expensive and you don’t need a full power laser. The civilian powered lasers from Holosun, Steiner, EoTech etc are fine for realistic uses. You should be able to find a decent PVS 14 in the two to $3000 range. You can get decent dual tube night vision somewhere between 4000 and $7000.

In the land of the blind men, the one eyed man is king.

A handheld or weapon mounted thermal is worth considering as well but can be pricey.

Up to you if you want to spend the extra money and extra weight for a ballistic helmet for the night vision or a bump helmet.

I want a set of good quality rifle rated plates that will stop 556 green tip and a low visibility carrier.

https://www.optactical.com/spthar.html


You’re gonna wanna stock up on a mix of rechargeable and lithium batteries for the above list that items.

I have and friends have a lot of supplies.

[Joe in PNG]

I will just say people in Tennessee stick together I will be far from alone if things go south.

Very good personal friends with William Lamberth he was my next-door neighbor for 10 years until he moved have meet the Governor, I am not a lone wolf scared older guy living in a dream world.

Excellent! That's a very overlooked part of these sort of scenarios. And since a lot of your community also has AR-15's, that can be pretty helpful in a lot of ways.

[Robert Mitchum]

All the mindset in the world doesn’t change the fact that being solo and over 40 in any sort of combat are huge disadvantages.

The idea of making it as LAMOE (The last man on earth.) in the event of a major disaster is generally unrealistic.

As is the idea that you’re going to be picking off threats at extended ranges like the second coming of Simo Häyhä or some Jeff Cooper scout rifle fantasy.

The idea that you’re gonna be able to identify threats at extended ranges in the scenario you cited is unrealistic.

There’s a strong case for “bugging in” and being as low visibility as possible.

That said:

AR-15.

5.56 kills people dead. I’ve seen over 30 people shot with 556, 26 of them in a single incident. anyone who tells you otherwise is full of s**t.

5.56 is easier and faster to make hits with.

5.56 can be effective out to 500 or 600 yards with the right gun and the right ammo. But realistically gun fighting occurs within 200 or 300 yards.

556 Ammo is cheaper, more common, weights less, and you can carry more rounds with the same weight. In a fight bullets are opportunities, especially if you are by yourself, which is a real disadvantage.

Longer-term the odds of finding ammunition, magazines and parts to keep a 556 AR 15 going in America are significantly higher. There are generally accepted standards for 556 AR’s and a lot more data about keeping them running long term.

Almost every AR 10 platform is proprietary in someway and not as durable or reliable as a 5.56 gun.

What actually wins fights?

Fire superiority
Mobility
Adequate marksmanship
Adequate lethality

My biggest concerns in the scenario you cite are water and food, with security third. Medical 4th.

Under security I’d rather have two AR 15s 10,000 rounds and a lots of magazines instead of one AR 10 and half as much ammo and magazines. .308 weighs twice as much and costs twice as much.

I definitely want a suppressor to help mask, muzzle, flash, and the exact location I’m firing from. I’m not looking for the quietest suppressor just something to make me harder to locate.

I also want body armor, preferably low visibility and medical. A lone person with a long rifle and overt body armor is going to be perceived as either a threat or a target of opportunity.

An 18 inch 556 is nice, but a 12.5 or 14.5” with a suppressor is more practical.

A bag gun, something that lets me carry a long gun in a lower visibility package is probably more useful than a DMR. A 10.5” with a law folder or something like an SIG MCX or Rattler.


If you just want an AR 10 because they are cool, get one. If you’re not already heavily invested in 308 consider one in 6.5 Creedmoor. Just be realistic about what it is and what it is not.

It would be much easier to stick to 556 and from the postings that seems to be the thing to do.

[Robert Mitchum]

Thanks for the great reply's... I am going to drink some warm milk and watch reruns of Gunsmoke.

[HeavyDuty]

AR15: parts and ammo are abundant; reliable, light.
AR10: Too much fiddling to make reliable; heavy; If i need reliability with power at distance then I would probably get a SCAR or bolt gun.

My thinking, too. I enjoy my 716i, but if I needed to use a .308 for something serious that 5.56 couldn’t do it would be one of my bolts.