Dad was perplexed as to why I started with the gun butt to hip, muzzle where I was looking to start when shooting clays. I told him thats how Id be using it if hunting birds or bunnies or whatever, so may as well play that way for it to be good practice. I use a rifle for everything other than flying bird hunting, but it still works the same when they jump.Originally Posted by Borderland
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
I was a bird hunter before I started shooting clays. I was introduced to skeet around 1970 in a foreign country. There I meet a gentleman who was a skeet shooting champion in Europe. I took some lessons from him and he shot everything low gun. I thought that was the way everyone shot clays and seemed entirely normal to me as a bird hunter,
20 years later when I started shooting clays again (~1995) I find out that nobody shot any of the games low gun. I just followed the crowd but it still seems odd to me. Every now and then I shoot a round of trap low gun. I don't shoot for score.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
With a bead-sighted shotgun the 'international ready' was actually faster and more accurate for the majority of the officers we trained. We taught 'eye- bead - target - up to the cheek back to the shoulder - fire when the stock hits your cheek' to drill the mount and shot during initial training and then naturally sped them up before going to 'eye on the target - mount to the target - shoot'
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
Hip shooting with arm held close body was widely taught as a weapon retention technique when at arms length grappling distance. Good training resources are Kill or Be Killed and Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back by Col. Rex Applegate and the 1980s police academy textbook Street Survival by Remsberg, Adams and McTernan.
Last edited by Outpost75; 04-10-2024 at 10:35 PM.
Shotguns have evolved with all types of sights including dots. A bead works just fine on a defensive shotgun. I'm sure there will be some blowback from people who know better and train with whatever the latest SD shotgun has for sights but that concept escapes me having been a bird hunter and clays shooter most of my life. If a person can hit a target quartering away at 45 mph from a low gun ready, and many can with practice, I can't see how a sight or mounted gun is much help.
Is this not unlike shooting from the hip?
Last edited by Borderland; 04-10-2024 at 10:47 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
This is definitely unlike shooting from the hip, as bead shooting is still sighted and from a consistent index
I thought that I should point out that Bill Jordan’s hip shooting was quite different from the FBI hip shooting. In Bill Jordan’s book _No Second Place Winner_, this is clearly shown, in a photograph. And, the hip shooting that I was expected to perform, for 20% of my shots, during each duty handgun qual, was different from either. It has been so long since I read McGivern’s, Fairbairn’s, and Fitzgerald’s books, I no longer remember what they wrote on hip shooting. The method that worked best, for my my individual, personal, physical body, was Bill Jordan’s method, which I had to carefully learn, based upon what he wrote, not simply by emulating photographs.
Every time I fired a qual, for score, those ten or twelve shots were wasted. Indexing the inside of my wrist or forearm against my side was counter-productive. Extending my weapon until I felt that just-right tension in my deltoid muscles, as described by Bill Jordan, was a MUCH more effective index. Of course, NEITHER method was a good idea, if an opponent was at extreme close range. I muddled along with things self-taught, until I had my “eureka” moment, with SouthNarc’s High #2, at ECQC in 2005.
Edited to add: Notably, when I did shoot in self-defense, in 1993, the distance was about two yards, so, I “should” have use the horrible hip shooting method that I had been taught to use at two yards. Fortunately, I had the sense to shoot two-handed, looking over the top of the weapon, aware of the sights, in my lower peripheral vision, while not looking AT the sights. My shot went right where I wanted it to go. I had learned how to do this, from @Mas Ayoob’s _StressFire_ book.
Last edited by Rex G; 04-11-2024 at 09:28 AM.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
Clay shooting is a pointing sport, not an aiming sport. Stationary target shooting with a shotgun can be an aiming sport if one uses the sight or sights, but generally a clays shooter isn't focused on the bead like a pistol shooter would be using a front sight.
So in that regard I think hip shooting has some similarities to shooting clays.
https://youtu.be/7YWgXae2eSI?t=89
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
I think we’re talking past each other- I shoot a pistol just like the bead on a shotgun. Focused hard on the target, blurry front sight used like the bead on a shotgun. Just like a red dot is supposed to be shot.
I’d make a strong argument that all shotgun shooting using a bead/with your head on the stock has drastically more of a visual element than shooting a pistol from the hip. Sure, you’re focused on the clay, but you can still see and use the rib and bead.
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