@LGChris tells us why:
@LGChris tells us why:
"The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so."
― Ennius
That was incredibly interesting video with a lot of lessons.
I realize that it's just a 11 minute Youtube video but no mention of Fairbairn, Applegate or other point shooting advocates nor details on Weaver, Chapman and the Big Bear Leatherslap matches where sighted fire was shown to win more than point shooting.
Karl Rehn's Historical Handgun class covered this extensively and we got to shoot the qualifications from different agencies/military branches through the years.
The 60 yard shoot from prone stage of the 1945 FBI qual was particularly challenging.
Gringop
Play that song about the Irish chiropodist. Irish chiropodist? "My Fate Is In Your Hands."
It was the hip thing to do.
I’ll see myself out.
...but only for hipsters.Originally Posted by Duelist
"The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so."
― Ennius
The revolver part of Historical was not my finest hour. Pretty decent with a Glock and 1911. Prone not my bod's thing either. Great class though. Nowadays, I'm more up for Hemorrhoidal Handgun. For grins, I do practice hip shooting with my SIRT around the house. House distances I usually can hit the target house item.
Cloud Yeller of the Boomer Age
IDK if it was still the FBI Qual Course, but I went through my first FBI taught Firearms Instructor Course in 1977, we shot the 60 yard course for qual, IIRC it was called the Tactical Revolver Course.
I think I've mentioned this before, but once while teaching an in-service firearms course to a bunch of railroad police officers I got my ass handed to me by a hip shooting yard officer. He was carrying a Model 57 .41 mag and would nor bring the weapon to eye level on our drills. I decided to demonstrate to the group why it was important to bring the pistol/revolver up and see it in your vision and that stance directed techniques (which is what hip shooting/point shoulder shooting are) failed when engaging multiple targets or shooting on the move.
I place three of our primitive metal targets on the berm at different heights and proceeded to demonstrate. My teaching buddy is standing to the side kind of shaking his head - he'd armorer serviced the guy's gun and later told me he'd never felt a better DA stroke or seem wear markings as deep on the cylinder. We didn't have timers then, but I have to admit I got off a couple pretty good runs with my Model 639. Then I asked the guy who wouldn't bring his revolver up to eye level if he wanted to try. He was such a friendly unassuming guy that I should have probably felt like an ass for putting him on the spot, but I didn't. Even without a shot timer it was apparent that he waxed my ass.
Practice can sometimes make not cutting edge stuff work pretty good. I hate to see what he would have done at eye level.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....
This is an important point. Many like to say that lower held or so-called hip/point shooting is useless, it isnt, and some impressive results can be had if one practices extensively. In the bad old days Ive shot many tens of thousands of rounds in what I term snap shooting from the holstered gun or held straight down, then snapped up hip to mid chest level and fire. With a single action, subsequent shots are done two handed, the left hand running the hammer, either lower or at eye level. Its hugely fun, particularly with large amounts of 22 ammo in SA and DA revolvers. Hitting empty 12 ga shells at around 15 feet as fast as one can cycle the action and fire can be quite impressive, though I also never tried shooting game that way. At least getting what I think is now called a rough or low visual reference, getting the gun just below the line of sight, works very well on squirrels and running rabbits and gets you very close to on when shooting things in the air.
People like Brice, McGivern, Keith, Jordan and others could do extremely good work shooting from hip level, though as far back as the 30s Keith and McGivern were encouraging two handed aimed shooting on any hunting game or anything beyond very close range shooting. Pistol hunters shot two handed as a practical thing, much of the rest of the world seemed stuck in the offshoot of formal bullseye shooting and mainly shot one handed. Keith mentioned that one should be capable of shooting one handed, but use two whenever possible for best results.
Chris Baker had it exactly right though in saying it took extensive practice to maintain such shenanigans. Like many things humans attempt, many do it, and generally poorly due to lack of experience, and conclude its a lie or impossible or whatever. Its not very practical in the greater scheme of things, but is fun when one wants to try variations on the shooting game. Try it for 10 or 20k rounds and it seems a bit more doable, though ones conclusion on practicality is not likely to change. I still dont think any of those practice rounds were wasted in any sense, it was fun, and not without satisfying results.
Last edited by Malamute; 04-10-2024 at 06:56 PM.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
Read also:
The Instructional Course for the Webley Pistol
by Capt. C.D. Tracey and Capt. J.B.L. Noel (1916).
Revolver Shooting In War, Capt. C.D. Tracey (1916)
The Pistol In War, Capt. E.H. Robinson (1941).
Synopsis of British Army Training in The Fouling Shot No.260 Jul-Aug 2019 pgs.7-11.
Gunsmoke and lots of other 60's westerns. Just a really cool thing to know how to do. I think a few mastered the art with a lot of hours of practice but I doubt it was common in the old west. Most folks back then had a shotgun. If they were lucky they had a rifle. My dad was born in TX in 1919 and never owned a pistol or revolver. He did however have a few shotguns and rifles.
I equate it to the shotgun sports. Not many shoot those low gun, the way a shot has to be taken in the field. If you don't practice shooting those sports with a low gun ready you're score will drop considerably if you try it and you will suffer in your field shooting abilities. Shotgun sports lost it's way a long time ago, IMO.
If you're a cop, or engaged in close combat, can you imagine taking out a shooter from a low ready using a shotgun, in less than a second, without thinking about anything?
Last edited by Borderland; 04-10-2024 at 08:51 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
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