Help me spend money, lighter CCW

[Crow Hunter]

https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/gun-recoil-velocity

I used this calculator to make an excel file of lots of handguns that I had personally owned or shot as well as others I was interested in.

I used the criteria of anything with a recoil velocity over 14fps as questionable and anything over 15 as problematic and anything 16 or above as no way.

I could then sort them by weight or recoil velocity and look for the "sweet spot" of weight and recoil.

It isn't 100% accurate to my experience but it it reasonably close. For instance a G19 with 124gr+p GDHP rates 14.63. Which isn't painful but not a all day long shooting round.
While the same round in a G43X was 18.49, which was painful to me.

A 115gr target load rated 12.51 (shoot all day) G19 and 15.81 in a G43X which is the uncomfortable but not painful range. I started having recoil hand shakes before 100 rounds when I had one.

I just used published recoil velocities that I found on the internet and unloaded weights for simplicity. So the velocities are likely too high on the smaller guns and the weight is too low but I think the error was similar enough across everything to give me a decent idea of what I should expect on recoil.

However, it does say that a Walther PPK should be 11.2 and I hated shooting the PPK I used to own. I shot a whole 100 rds out of it the whole time I owned it, I would be surprised.

Nothing scientific, just a evaluation tool to narrow down what I wanted to look at before I make the 1 hour plus trip to a rental range to try something out.

I apologize in advance since I am typing on my phone instead of a real keyboard because work now blocks PF.

[RJ]

https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/gun-recoil-velocity

I used this calculator to make an excel file of lots of handguns that I had personally owned or shot as well as others I was interested in.

I used the criteria of anything with a recoil velocity over 14fps as questionable and anything over 15 as problematic and anything 16 or above as no way.

I could then sort them by weight or recoil velocity and look for the "sweet spot" of weight and recoil.

It isn't 100% accurate to my experience but it it reasonably close. For instance a G19 with 124gr+p GDHP rates 14.63. Which isn't painful but not a all day long shooting round.
While the same round in a G43X was 18.49, which was painful to me.

A 115gr target load rated 12.51 (shoot all day) G19 and 15.81 in a G43X which is the uncomfortable but not painful range. I started having recoil hand shakes before 100 rounds when I had one.

I just used published recoil velocities that I found on the internet and unloaded weights for simplicity. So the velocities are likely too high on the smaller guns and the weight is too low but I think the error was similar enough across everything to give me a decent idea of what I should expect on recoil.

However, it does say that a Walther PPK should be 11.2 and I hated shooting the PPK I used to own. I shot a whole 100 rds out of it the whole time I owned it, I would be surprised.

Nothing scientific, just a evaluation tool to narrow down what I wanted to look at before I make the 1 hour plus trip to a rental range to try something out.

I apologize in advance since I am typing on my phone instead of a real keyboard because work now blocks PF.

*slaps forehead*

"Conservation of momentum". Of course. Makes sense, and I appreciate the info. I'll definitely take a look at the numbers in respect to my subjective perspective of recoil. Thanks!

[Cool Breeze]

the most shootable gun of this lot is g42. However, a hogue grip made my g43 more shootable for me. It weighs 21.68 ounces with 6 round mag w/pinky extension. It feels considerably lighter than my g19 with red dot which is 32.19 ounces loaded.

[Navin Johnson]

Everyone has their own experience, however

The 43 and 43X are worse to shoot than the old 23. They are snappy with twisting recoil. And most people I speak with who shot a 43 next to a 365 or shield agree. Again in my experience.

I agree the 42 is very fun and easy to shoot other than being fussy.

[Cool Breeze]

I realized I have some data that might help you. I've been tracking weight fully loaded of most all of the firearms I've purchased over the last 10 years, including some I almost purchased. The table is below, sorted by weight in ounces. ("Almosts" are in pink.)

Attachment 117109
On the basis of a 20 oz carry criteria, your choices would seem to include a Ruger LCR, a 43, and perhaps a P365 or P365X. Of those, the P365X has the lowest weight in ounce per round carried. This is one of the reasons I bought and carry a P365X, aside from the many other reasons to.

Oh and I see you mentioned a snubby. If you don't have a snubby, I'd get one. I bought my Ruger LCR four years ago not thinking I'd use it all that much. It's on me almost every day, and is my primary take out the trash, work in the yard or wash the truck gun. Carry it in the Gym, too.

Great reference! Did you weigh each gun or did you find the info on the internet?

While not the topic of the thread that is crazy how much an M&p FS weighs compared to a Glock 34. Wow.

[RJ]

Great reference! Did you weigh each gun or did you find the info on the internet?

While not the topic of the thread that is crazy how much an M&p FS weighs compared to a Glock 34. Wow.

For the ones in pink, I just used internet sources. For the rest, they are actual weights on my home scale (ok, well, to be fair, my wife's scale, but don't rat me out) and then I added in an average weight of my carry ammo multiplied by the number of rounds loaded N+1. It's been accumulating for a while, yes.

To return to the conservation of momentum concept as a means of quantifying recoil, after computing all of mine (see below), I think it's an interesting concept. But (and this might be surprising, since I am all about numbers) I don't think it is all that useful, in terms of how recoil is perceived on specific guns, at least not more than generally.



For example, I perceive the G43X as extremely snappy, but the table would suggest the P365 and P365X are worse. In actual shooting the small Sig's (and I've had four) they are not that bad. So while mass in a gun is a thing, I think it may be overshadowed by the recoil spring, mass of the reciprocating slide, physics of the elastic collision that takes place in re the polymer / steel of the gun, and so on. Pretty cool concept though, and I could see using it as a "general" guideline.

What I do use this table for (and what I designed it to collect) is rating carry guns in terms of "ounce per round". In other words, how many ounces do you have to lug around, for each round of ammo? This is more of a measure of efficiency. Here, I find this data pretty valuable, as I have tended to sell off guns at the high end of this metric (greater than 2.0, i.e. P30SK, Walther PPS M2) and ended up keeping only those which are more weight efficient (less than 2.0, i.e. Glocks or Sig P365s).

[rawkguitarist]

I can't compare to a ton of guns... But singing the same tune as many, the Glock 42 is REALLY comfortable to shoot. I dare to say it feels/shoots like a larger gun. NOW, the tungsten guid rod assembly from Glockstore with a lighter spring is a must IMO. When I had my 507k installed, I got one to help with reliability. This pistol cycles better than my Glock 19's. I put it through a battery of TERRIBLE grips, including barely gripping at all with my arm bent 90 degrees at the elbow. Target ammo and my carry loads - didn't choke a single time.

Glock did engineering a smaller pistol in a real sweet spot for shootability and concealability. And there are a handful of loads, including ones using the Hornady 90g XTP bullet, that perform way better than many expect .380 to perform.

For those scratching their heads about a dot on a 42, after cataracts I have synthetic lenses.... I can only see irons in sunlight.

[RJ]

What I do use this table for (and what I designed it to collect) is rating carry guns in terms of "ounce per round". In other words, how many ounces do you have to lug around, for each round of ammo? This is more of a measure of efficiency. Here, I find this data pretty valuable, as I have tended to sell off guns at the high end of this metric (greater than 2.0, i.e. P30SK, Walther PPS M2) and ended up keeping only those which are more weight efficient (less than 2.0, i.e. Glocks or Sig P365s).

To save someone some squinting, this is the table sorted by ounce per round. The upper section is below 2.0, the bottom section above.

[4RNR]

I own the LCP Custom and the max (10+1 and 12+1). Neither are for anything more than run out to the store real quick. The Custom doesnt feel bad to shoot but the Max has incredibly bad trigger slap. Extremely sharp and painful. To the point where I cant get through half a box of ammo and will only shoot it after shooting everything else cause, if shot first, itll ruin the rest of your range trip. That one is going to be leaving soon. I wanted to like it....i like the concept, compact, light weight 380 with 10+1 or 12+1 but this trigger slap is just awful. Maybe there's something wrong with mine.....

I never cared for the G42 due to the grip size but reading this I may go rent one to at least give it a try

[jh9]

I own the LCP Custom and the max (10+1 and 12+1). Neither are for anything more than run out to the store real quick. The Custom doesnt feel bad to shoot but the Max has incredibly bad trigger slap. Extremely sharp and painful. To the point where I cant get through half a box of ammo and will only shoot it after shooting everything else cause, if shot first, itll ruin the rest of your range trip. That one is going to be leaving soon. I wanted to like it....i like the concept, compact, light weight 380 with 10+1 or 12+1 but this trigger slap is just awful. Maybe there's something wrong with mine.....

I never cared for the G42 due to the grip size but reading this I may go rent one to at least give it a try

The LCP max is on the list of "guns I should have rented instead of bought" because it didn't even get a full 50-round box. It felt like sticking my finger in a pencil sharpener. Hard pass.

The 42 is the only Glock I still own.