Washington state bans knives on public transportation

[Joe in PNG]

This really misunderstands the motives of both sides.

It's a bit of an overly cynical look, but it's not that inaccurate. People will say that their motives are always for the Greater Good/ For The Children, but the desire to punish enemies is never that far away.

[BillSWPA]

It's a bit of an overly cynical look, but it's not that inaccurate. People will say that their motives are always for the Greater Good/ For The Children, but the desire to punish enemies is never that far away.

What does anyone have to gain by punishing the other side?

[Joe in PNG]

What does anyone have to gain by punishing the other side?

Quite a lot, actually. It's fairly noticeable that finding some minority group to blame for your problems and then punish tends to occur with depressing regularity throughout history.

ETA: It's nice to have scapegoats & wreckers to blame for the failures of your own policies. Punishing them is an easy way to Do Something about a problem, especially when the real solution is difficult, painful, and unpopular.

[BillSWPA]

Quite a lot, actually. It's fairly noticeable that finding some minority group to blame for your problems and then punish tends to occur with depressing regularity throughout history.

ETA: It's nice to have scapegoats & wreckers to blame for the failures of your own policies. Punishing them is an easy way to Do Something about a problem, especially when the real solution is difficult, painful, and unpopular.

True in other circumstances, but I do not see that desire to punish anyone from anyone involved in the issues you mention. As we push for our agenda, be careful about falling into the trap of overly-vilifying the other side without seeing things from their side. The ability to see from their side ultimately helps us persuade the persuadable people of the correctness of our position.

[Totem Polar]

What does anyone have to gain by punishing the other side?

I don’t have any idea, but I can tell you from having literally swam in a liberal sea for most of my adult life that a *LOT* of leftists take great glee in fucking what they see as the unwashed. I hear some variation of it almost any time I’m on the gig in a wine bar or brew pub and politics comes up, since I tend to keep my opinions to myself, unless pushed or I hear something absolutely untrue/inane. I certainly know some liberal politicians who went into politics and stayed in order to make their community a better place—which I have great respect for, even if we differ considerably on the means (our state senate majority leader is a good example, as is a city council member that I’ve known for over 25 years) but I can think of more politicos of my acquaintance who’ve said some incredibly derogatory things about the other side of the aisle in private conversations among the tribe.

I’m talking comments like “fuck them if they’re not on board with the progressive moment” and “yet again, white people are the problem.” I can only speak for my region, but I’m on a first name basis with lots of name brand state and local Ds simply by being visible and active in the arts over the years.

Plus, once you step off the abyss bus that the far left is driving over an absurd cliff (just down from equally absurd hills to die on), I’m actually pretty liberal myself, in a bill of rights sort of way. Strange but true.

And, of course, OMMV.

[Joe in PNG]

True in other circumstances, but I do not see that desire to punish anyone from anyone involved in the issues you mention. As we push for our agenda, be careful about falling into the trap of overly-vilifying the other side without seeing things from their side. The ability to see from their side ultimately helps us persuade the persuadable people of the correctness of our position.

If one looks at the (admittedly nuts) digital public sphere, one does find a lot of vilification, because that is what people do. People vilify their enemies, and promising to hurt them is a great way to get votes. Have you not noticed that a lot of modern demagoguery, from Gun Control to Immigration to even the Defund the Police movement tends to revolve around the promise of doing some sort of political hard to those evil people over there?

[Joe in PNG]

I don’t have any idea, but I can tell you from having literally swam in a liberal sea for most of my adult life that a *LOT* of leftists take great glee in fucking what they see as the unwashed. I hear some variation of it almost any time I’m on the gig in a wine bar or brew pub and politics comes up, since I tend to keep my opinions to myself, unless pushed or I hear something absolutely untrue/inane. I certainly know some liberal politicians who went into politics and stayed in order to make their community a better place—which I have great respect for, even if we differ considerably on the means (our state senate majority leader is a good example, as is a city council member that I’ve known for over 25 years) but I can think of more politicos of my acquaintance who’ve said some incredibly derogatory things about the other side of the aisle in private conversations among the tribe.

I’m talking comments like “fuck them if they’re not on board with the progressive moment” and “yet again, white people are the problem.” I can only speak for my region, but I’m on a first name basis with lots of name brand state and local Ds simply by being visible and active in the arts over the years.

Plus, once you step off the abyss bus that the far left is driving over an absurd cliff (just down from equally absurd hills to die on), I’m actually pretty liberal myself, in a bill of rights sort of way. Strange but true.

And, of course, OMMV.

I've seen a lot of the same desire from those on the Right as well.

[Totem Polar]

I've seen a lot of the same desire from those on the Right as well.

I find that easy to believe.

The conservative folks I spend most of my time around are primarily from the training community, so pretty even tempered and generally respectful, but I have no doubt whatsoever that there are plenty of righties saying truly derogatory stuff about the left—with a nice side helping of punishment. It’s the times we live in.

[Joe in PNG]

I find that easy to believe.

The conservative folks I spend most of my time around are primarily from the training community, so pretty even tempered and generally respectful, but I have no doubt whatsoever that there are plenty of righties saying truly derogatory stuff about the left—with a nice side helping of punishment. It’s the times we live in.

It's something I see every day on social media from friends and family.

And I suspect that Bill & I might be in agreement- most people don't really know and understand who Those People on the Other Side are- that they're actually people too. Instead, they hold a sort of caricature, based on an exaggerated version of an aggregate of the most extreme views plus stuff they fear & loath. And sometimes, they're really not that wrong, because people are often horrible and do horrible things on a regular basis.

[Hambo]

I've seen a lot of the same desire from those on the Right as well.

Wanting liberal tears or wanting to fuck over deplorables. In group-out group theory in action.