If the average worker at Walmart could afford a new car and a mortgage no one would shop there because it would be too expensive.
If the average worker at Walmart could afford a new car and a mortgage no one would shop there because it would be too expensive.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
OK. I am glad we can agree there IS a "floor" of compensation and benefits below which companies should not go below. You and I just disagree on where that "floor" is set. But do we really want to let that floor go to the lowest common denominator? By allowing companies to drive labor costs into the poverty levels, other companies will follow to be competitive, and in so doing, we are creating an economy that drives more employees into poverty. And, that lowers the standard of living for a broader group of people and creates all kind of negative ripple effects such as: puts a college education out of reach of these populations, reduces the circulation of money into the communities to support businesses in those communities (instead those profits go into luxury items for the owners and "investments" on wall street that don't reach back into the communities where workers live.), reduces local gov't revenues to support basic services like public transportation, local roads, parks, local utilities, etc.Originally Posted by Tamara
To stimulate the economy, money needs to be circulating by purchasing goods and services across broad populations, and not just at the top where expensive cars and homes don't help the Walmart communities in smaller cities/towns.
And, if other companies, such as Safeway and Giant and Kroger and Sears and JC Penney can offer a higher "floor," then why can't Walmart?
And, finally, I think of a decent paying job with basic benefits and meets minimum standards for safety, working for a company that is not being fraudulent or cheating people, represents the kind of American Values that we should be promoting in the US and to the world. That sets the moral and ethical tone for healthy business practices and economic prosperity across the nation and the world.
CC
No, we do not. I was merely stating what full-time menial labor for adults traditionally paid. There are some jobs, such as pushing carts, running registers, or stocking shelves, that don't necessarily return enough value to their employers to pay even that and have traditionally been filled by students, retirees, housevives, and other part-timers. I know. This is where I have worked pretty much all my life.
Question: If WalMart is oppressing all these great workers with wages so far below the accepted floor, why are Safeway and Sears not setting up recruiting tables in their parking lot and poaching away the cream of their workforce? What is it with WalMart being everybody's favorite bugbear? Is it just so big, and therefore an easy target?
To be clear, I said a car payment....to clarify...a payment on a used car.
And, I said a modest mortgage...I was being nice...a small mortgage.
And, no, it would not cause the prices to go up because Walmart still has to compete....just like Sears and JC Penneys, and Safeway...and they all pay a non-poverty wage and benefits package. It's a matter of how the revenues/profits are distributed that makes the difference. Is more money going into luxury autos and expensive homes in the Hamptons or is it flowing into local communities through employees purchases of goods and services?
CC
Having lived for many years on minimum wage or barely above, let me school you on a couple realities: Number One is don't have a car payment.
When you are on the bottom of the socioeconomic heap in suburban America, your job is your life because you are living from paycheck to paycheck. If you lose the job and cannot make a car payment, now you lose the car and you are truly boned because now you cannot get another job. Whoever you have to beg, whatever you have to sell, you need that clear title; worst come to worst, if you have a car, you can always deliver pizzas. Or sleep in it.
Car payments are for suckers and rich people.
People are settling for Walmart jobs because better paying jobs have disappeared, been outsourced, or are being downsized. Jobs with those other employers are very competitive now because they pay well. But that leaves millions of people having to take what they can get. For the record, I never said Walmart was oppressing anyone.
The value of labor, whether it's pushing carts or managing a store, is dramatically different at Walmart than at most other American Companies. Walmart can be just as prosperous and competitive....it's a matter of WHERE they put the money they are earning...is it going back into the communities through employees earnings or into luxury items and international travel for those at the top. I am not trying to deny the owners their bounty, but they need to do a better job of taking care of their employees and the communities they serve. And, you know....that can make them even more successful than they are today.
CC
I agree.
Let me chime in here with some of my experience.
My daughter worked at WalMart; as well as a Karate instructor, bussing tables at a higher end restaurant, contract security officer & now a receptionist for a county run nursing home. We were just having this discussion last week. She felt that she was treated fairly by Walmart as an employee. She got a decent wage for what she did (mostly running a register) and benefits as a P/T employee, frankly she wonders what all the hype is about “BAD WORKING CONDITIONS” at WalMart. Her only complaint was not with her employer but the rude/crude customer base that shop there treating her and her fellow employees like crap.
I used to be a Kmart shopper, and knew a couple of sisters who worked there. You always saw them on the floor or behind the customer service counter. One day I was in the checkout line of our local WalMart and low and behold one of the sisters was running the register. We discussed her (and her sister’s) decision to move to WalMart and she was thrilled, she explained that the wages, benefits etc were much better at WalMart than her previous job. She had even recently received a profit sharing (or alike) bonus.
Kamart has been in financial trouble for decades closing stores left and right. Sears is in finical trouble as well. Quite frankly Sears is no longer a store I frequent; this has nothing to do with how they treat their employees but the fact that the shopping experience is not what it used to be. Like Kmart they are having a branding issue.
Scott
Only Hits Count - The Faster the Hit the more it Counts!!!!!!; DELIVER THE SHOT!
Stephen Hillier - "An amateur practices until he can do it right, a professional practices until he can't do it wrong."
That sort of makes my point about the corporate income tax... it'd be much better to get rid of it, which would eliminate things like special tax treatment for industry X, and then treat investment income like ordinary income. No "tax breaks for oil companies" to worry about. No "so-and-so pays a lower tax rate than I do". (Which is usually only true when comparing the rich guy's effective rate to normal guy's marginal rate) But the main reason I'm in favor of it is to greatly reduce the incentive for companies to lobby for special tax treatment. It just happens to nicely address your concerns of fairness, too.
I gotta say, there is an enormous amount of ignorance that some of us have been trying to dispel about the economy and specifically WalMart, so I'm gonna drop this sledgehammer and then drop the mic, cuz this is going plaid, faster than you can say 10Q.
Walmart's total global sales are 114,296,000,000. Yup, that's 114 BILLION dollars...holy mackeral, gimme summadat cash$$!!
But their expenses are the costs of goods, operating expenses, salaries, dividends to shareholders (whom invest in them after making taxable income first) and all of that leaves them with 4,016,000,000. Well damn, still, gimme summadat cash$$! You say, cuz that's 4 plus 9 zeroes and that makes a BILLION!!!
Well wait a second, WalMart employs 2.2 million people worldwide according to Fortune 500. So let's divide ALL OF THAT CASH LEFT OVER FROM THOSE GREEDY SOBS b/w the 2.2 million people and break it down hourly. That's 4 billion/2.2 million/2000 hour work year (40 hr/week with 2 weeks off) and that's .91/hr MORE!!! NOTE: Don't forget the witholding tax that will take some of that 91 pennies.
But wait, it gets worse, b/c now that you've looted the damn place, you have NO MORE! No more stores to grow out into other places in the world, no way to improve the current stores, employ more people, no way to expand your operations, employees, employee benefits, etc.
So when you say you can just make WalMart pay people more, ya can't. The company operates on a 5% margin. That's why it's so damn cheap to shop there. Do you know what margin I pay for the beer I need to get at the bar after all this yammering? One beer at my local bar is about 1/2 the cost of a 6 pack if you go domestic and about 80% of the cost of a 6 pack if I go foreign and the liquor store is making a profit on my six pack and my bar is making a killing.
Now imagine running a bar where you only got to charge $1.05 for a beer that cost a $1.00. Do you think the hotty behind the bar could afford her g-string sticking outta her pants (I know she gets tips, focus on your favorite waiter/waiterette)? Do you think the owner could pay for the bouncer to be there when your drunk arse tries to grab at her and snap said g-string? Do you think he could afford to keep the lights, heat, a/c, parking lot, roof, furnace, oven, fryer, cooks and taxes maintained if he only made 5%???
WalMart is not only a great company to work for, it's practically a god damn miracle it stays in business with a 5% margin, so please, read the 10Q of WalMart if you don't believe me and learn what each line on the balance sheet means and then get back to us, b/c this discussion is being blinded by utopian fantasy without adding any factual relevance on how to accomplish said fantasy other than, we should.
Well if you gotta 6 pack and live in NJ, meet me at the River Grill, cuz I got plenty of shoulda, woulda, couldas that I'd like to lay on ya.
My Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walmart
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...31201210-q.htm
Last edited by BaiHu; 11-20-2012 at 09:25 AM. Reason: spelling
Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.
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