This is a question for the good and great instructors, Have you ever had a student that just don't get it, one you have tried every trick you know but just can't get them to shoot?
How do you tell them they need to get a scatter gun?
are there people who just can't be trained.
the funny thing with this guy his first round is spot on, then it gets scary. I just think he can''t shake the flinch.
“Buy a scattergun, so when you miss, 9 projectiles instead of just one will end up who knows where.”
More to the point, have you tried a .22 or something else with low recoil?
This sounds like more of an indictment of your externalized shooting method and/or the delivery, than of the student.Originally Posted by cracker
Certainly, the derogation isn't helping your case that the student is the primary fault in this minimally described event.
Jules
Runcible Works
Here is one. Ask them the last time they had their eyes check. I was in a class in 2015 and a student was drastically under performing the group. It turned out he could not see the target
I am working with my son, who has Coffin-Siris syndrome. He does okay with a rifle on a bench rest, but is having a terrible time with a pistol. I have tried both a Browning Buck Mark with iron sights and a Glock 44 with a Nelson Precision slide and a Swampfox Liberty optic. At some point I may try a .22 with a better trigger plus optic to further isolate skills, so that one skill can be developed at a time. Then I can progress to iron sights or more difficult triggers.
For most new shooters, I can draw a picture of a sight picture, and they understand. For my son, I made cardboard cutouts of a front and rear sight to show him the alignment. I specifically show him how the front cutout matches the front sight, and the rear cutout matches the rear sight. Understanding the student’s visualization limits and working within them is critical.
He started playing special needs hockey this year. Last year he could not ice skate. Teaching him how to skate involved making sure he had really good, properly fitted skates, as well as taking him on the ice until he got it. He was really motivated, and that helped a great deal. Some of the lessons in teaching skating are similar to teaching shooting.
Special needs people tend to get very strong ideas about how things should be. For both activities, I have to strike a balance between teaching him the best way and working with what he is comfortable with. His technique might not be the best, but if certain specifics are not hindering him too much, keeping him within his comfort zone in one area helps him progress in another. He currently states with his feet wide apart, but he is progressing to faster speeds that way. Someday, if an employer is willing to spend the time, his strong ideas about how things should be will motivate him to make sure they are exactly how his employer wants them.
A SIRT pistol is a really good tool for isolating skills, and can sometimes be used to diagnose problems which are not readily apparent during live fire.
I will agree with the above post that “get a scattergun” reflects fundamental misunderstandings about what shotguns are and are not capable of doing. Shot from a cylinder choke will spread about 1 inch for every yard from the barrel. They must be aimed just like a rifle, and marksmanship remains equally critical.
A flinch tells me that the shooter described in the original post is shooting something with too much recoil for his skill level. Start with a .22 and work up gradually from there.
Any legal information I may post is general information, and is not legal advice. Such information may or may not apply to your specific situation. I am not your attorney unless an attorney-client relationship is separately and privately established.
Eye Rx- can he see?
Eye dominance- what is he seeing?
Assess outside and/or under best lighting conditions possible
Electronic Ear Muffs and plugs-cutting noise can cut flinch
Low recoiling round
Quality eye pro so they know they are safe
Determine if the have attention/ information processing challenges in other aspects of life-simply ask them
Can you readily demonstrate the standard you are seeking?
Presuming no other physical challenges- a look in the mirror is also in play.
Borrowed heavily from BSA and Tom Givens
EDGEE
Explain what you are doing and why
Demonstrate the same
Guide the student thru the process
Enable and encourage the student to perform independently
(Evaluate as appropriate)
Last edited by vcdgrips; 03-22-2024 at 08:03 AM.
I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.
Take aiming out of the equation.
So even his eye doctor can not tell him which is his dominate eye.
he maybe a little better with the 22..
He also has some problems with his hands..
the scatter gun statement was more of a joke, that's what his groups look like. If I was serious I would have said he needs to get a double barrel and go out on his porch and fire 2 shots in the air, that scares away the attacker. again just kidding.
I guess a should have simply asked have you ever had a student you could not get to handle a gun and shoot straight?
Or have you ever had someone you could not cure of the flinch?
His eye doctor may define dominant eye differently than the way we define dominant eye. Some eye doctors define it as the eye needing the least correction. Have you had him performed test of looking through a small gap in his hands while bringing his hands close to his face?
Depending on the hand problem, he may need a light trigger, or may need to work on a slow DA squeeze while focusing on the sights. Try both approaches.
Any legal information I may post is general information, and is not legal advice. Such information may or may not apply to your specific situation. I am not your attorney unless an attorney-client relationship is separately and privately established.
OK, his/her groups are bad, but what else ? An exact description of the standard you are trying to have the student reach may be helpful. Slow fire at 7 yards ? Basic handling ?
In my experience some people, even ones without obvious health issues, are just slower at picking new stuff up and are easily overwhelmed. Be it math, swimming, or shooting. It may take a much longer and much structured approach to get them to a somewhat proficient level.
Having clear goals set, and methods to get there, is helpful.
Reply With Quote