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Thread: Proper way to attain grip

  1. #1
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    Proper way to attain grip

    Whenever I have read about proper draw technique there is a great deal of discussion about actually drawing the gun (as in raising it from the holster), rotation, punch out, etc. There is very little regarding the route the hand should take to to get to the grip prior to the actual draw. Basically, my question is what is the proper way to bring the hand to the grip with OWB or IWB holsters (as opposed to something riding lower on the thigh)? It seems there are three possibilities, although they are a little hard to describe:

    1) Raise the hand so that it is across from or "even" with the grip and then move it laterally (parallel to the ground) to the grip;

    2) With the hand below the holster pull it up along the length of the holster until you come to the grip; or

    3) Bring the hand above the grip, then push it down onto the backstrap.

    In my limited experience, #3 seems to work better as once you come down to the backstrap it provides a natural stop. Particularly with #1, if you are wrong on the timing you can actually "miss" the grip. In any event, I have never read anything regarding the recommended or "correct" route for the hand to take to get to the grip.

    Your suggestions and insights would be appreciated.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I will qualify this explanation by saying that regardless of what you may pick up from me, you need to have a qualified instructor watch you carefully to ensure that you arent making any mistakes. Now... here goes my best explanation.

    Getting the hands to the gun


    Appendix


    Both hands drop to let the weak hand establish a solid grip on the cover garment. Lifting upward as high as possible, the weak side hand drives to the high sternum. The strong hand moves just above the grip, into position to draw the gun.

    If for some reason youre using an open front garment, the draw becomes more like the 3 oclock draw, just less movement.

    3 or 4 o'clock


    This depends on type of garment worn to conceal. Closed garments both hands move to the gun position to lift the garment high above the pistol to clear the path for the draw. Open front garments the strong side hand drives inside the jacket, using the little finger to get inside the clothing. There is no flapping the jacket open...that is wasted time and often will flop back onto the gun, fouling the grip and draw. From here on out its the same.

    The weak hand anchors itself flat to the sternum. The strong hand moves downward to the gun.


    Establishing the grip

    In either appendix or the 3 o'clock / 4 o'clock position, the hand needs to drive downward onto the gun. In appendix its a little trickier to do with a closed front garment like a polo as initially both hands are moving upwards. You dont ever want to scoop the gun out with the fingertips and try and establish your grip on the fly. Take your time initially and learn / ingrain the movements.

    The thumb slides around the back of the grip to the inside position, ensuring that the web of the hand is in proper position driven high as possible into the backstrap leaving no gap and that the hand is seated in position. The tips of the fingers roll around the frontstrap keeping light pressure on the frame to establish the grip and ensure no snag of inner garments.

    Once the grip is established the gun comes up vertically into the #2 position (or #3 if youre running appendix), the hands meet, using the index finger of the support hand to roll against the trigger guard and middle finger of the strong hand. From there the support side thumb extends and anchors to the gun, and the gun and drives out linearly to the target.
    Last edited by SamuelBLong; 11-17-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: grammar / organizaton
    "I want to see someone running down the street with a sims-gun shrieking 'I am the first revelation' " - SouthNarc

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  4. #4
    Site Supporter MDS's Avatar
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    The replies so far have been so clear that even though I'm a shooting nobody i thought I'd add my two shekels just muddy the waters a bit. Specifically around driving the thumb behind the gun (between the gun and the body) while it's still in the holster. I definitely prefer to drive the hand down, but i flag my thumb, hooking over the rear sight, while the fingers go around the grip in the usual way. I squeeze the thumb to ensure as high a grip as possible, then pull the gun out. As soon as out clears the holster, the thumb slides around and completes the grip. The rest of the draw is as usual.

    I find this is faster and less fumble prone, for me.

    I'll second Samuel's advice to explore this with a good trainer/coach - in fact I'd recommend doing it with several, since high-level shooters can disagree on details like this. Try different tweaks and see what works for you, don't be afraid to evolve over time.

    Great question!
    The answer, it seems to me, is wrath. The mind cannot foresee its own advance. --FA Hayek Specialization is for insects.

  5. #5
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    Something I've been working on is SHO presentations. I usually wear closed front garments and my holster is at 3:45, so my draw currently consists of dragging a flagged thumb up to lift the garment and then straight down to find the gun. It's weird and difficult and I'd like to have an instructor watch and correct it sometime, but I *really* want presenting the gun one handed to be my natural default.
    Ignore Alien Orders

  6. #6
    With a one handed draw from under a closed front garment I like to grab in front of the gun and drag the fabric up and then across my body, pinning it somewhat with the strong side forearm, then driving the hand straight down to the grip. I've found that the dragging across tends to get more fabric out of the way than the traditional grab & pull straight up method.

    For a little clarity, if carrying AIWB I'll grab the bottom of my shirt on my support side and drag it up to the 2, then release the garment & drive my hand to the grip. This provides a much more foul- resistant draw.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter MDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YammyMonkey View Post
    With a one handed draw from under a closed front garment I like to grab in front of the gun and drag the fabric up and then across my body, pinning it somewhat with the strong side forearm, then driving the hand straight down to the grip. I've found that the dragging across tends to get more fabric out of the way than the traditional grab & pull straight up method.

    For a little clarity, if carrying AIWB I'll grab the bottom of my shirt on my support side and drag it up to the 2, then release the garment & drive my hand to the grip. This provides a much more foul- resistant draw.
    Me, too. Vinh taught this method to tlg and the rest of us at Rogers a few months ago. Also, for sho draws, I take a little extra time to wrap my thumb around the gun before taking it out of the holster.
    The answer, it seems to me, is wrath. The mind cannot foresee its own advance. --FA Hayek Specialization is for insects.

  8. #8
    Member jon volk's Avatar
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    My biggest hang up with obtaining grip is using a holster that wedges the butt against my body. It's great for concealment but I find wearing no undergarment makes it stick to me and I can't always get a deep enough grab. Conversely, if I wear an undergarment, it will often get material pinched between my thumb and grip.

    Anyone have advice on this part or is it just a fact of life.

  9. #9
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    This thread had me thinking hard during my dry practice last night. I'm no SME but here are my thoughts.

    -OWB or a IWB that doesn't tuck in the gun (my Ravens), I push the hand straight down on the gun and obtain a good grip, with the thumb wrapped around the frame.

    -Good IWB concealment holsters where it is difficult to shove the thumb between your gun and your body (pretty much all I run now), I keep the thumb flagged and obtain the "master grip" (unsure if that is the right term) on count one of the draw stroke. I will flag the thumb on the way back at count 2 when reholstering. Also depending on the cover garment I am actually sweeping the gun out of the holster from below.

    I'll be thinking and dry practicing the next couple of days with great attention to this. I believe flagging the thumb and getting the grip on count one is sub-optimal but necessary when using a good concealment holster. I want to be using a holster that is "go into the NYC Police Department on gun confiscation day and ask for directions" concealment.

    Thanks for making me think and keep advancing,
    Cookie Monster
    Last edited by Cookie Monster; 12-04-2012 at 11:06 AM. Reason: grammer

  10. #10
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    I do the Ron Avery "pop".

    To train for this I place my middle and ring fingers on the front strap of the pistol, thumb to retention device. I drop my hand straight down and squeeze, doing my best to make the motion short, and sharp. I am trying to "pop" the gun out of the holster. Once I have that I move to getting to the index position from various hand positions, always going to the middle and ring fingers on the front strap and trying to pop the gun out of the holster.

    pat

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