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Thread: New RCS holster... Side car style

  1. #161
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    How useable is the mag carrier on this holster? Maybe it's just the angle in the photos I've seen, but the mag appears to seat very deeply in the holster and well below the top of the pistol. I'd typically carry a spare mag higher relative to the top of the slide to aid in extraction, but curious to hear others thoughts? I'm also assuming the mag ride height isn't adjustable? Curious more than anything, as I signed up to get in line for one yesterday.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Star Gear View Post
    It can't be looked at as a sidecar. When we consider the four AIWB features we have to work with, this is just a leading lever rather than a trailing lever (wing). Traditional sheetstock manufacturing does not allow for enough strength to handle the fatigue from something pushing from the inside, it's barely strong enough to last with a wing. If you look at how to make a holster minding the boundary between the gun and the body, and use a strong additive process, you have way more options, to include the leading lever. Once you add that lever you have something in that area that is dead space, regardless of holster, so why not add a little more material and toss a mag there? It's been common to stuff a flashlight there on current holsters anyway.
    Isn't the leading lever going to be in a place that is very flat on some people? For me, the trailing lever is in a location where there is actully sufficent curve in my belt to create "grip tuck." I don't see a leading lever creating nearly as much tuck.

    I agree that the mag pouch is more a byproduct of the desing than intentional, but they didn't seem to put much effort into integrating it. There looks to be almost no ability to properly index the mag in the pouch.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by centex View Post
    How useable is the mag carrier on this holster? Maybe it's just the angle in the photos I've seen, but the mag appears to seat very deeply in the holster and well below the top of the pistol. I'd typically carry a spare mag higher relative to the top of the slide to aid in extraction, but curious to hear others thoughts? I'm also assuming the mag ride height isn't adjustable? Curious more than anything, as I signed up to get in line for one yesterday.
    Disclosure, never touched this new Raven.

    I carry my mags pretty deep.

    My hunch at a glance is the mag will be easier to get at when the pistol is out of the holster?

  4. #164
    STAFF Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCSMichael View Post
    We have a different model under development for mid- and full-size pistols. Due to the greater thickness of double-stack guns and their magazines, this piggyback-style design doesn't translate well to larger weapons. So there will be a similar style holster to this -- just without the integrated magazine cavity -- for larger guns.
    Now I get it. I'll take a look when you come out with one for larger guns.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

    “It worked pretty good if you could shoot.” -Pat Rogers

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig_Fiend View Post
    That makes PERFECT sense. In short, other holsters manipulate tuck externally. The VSB manipulates tuck internally.

    For conventional holsters, the downside is internal vs. external shape is inextricably linked. That creates potential for issues with comfort, concealment, and complexity (e.g. additional attachments needed).

    For the VSB, with the external shape separated from the internal geometry, you can more effectively manipulate angle/tuck while maintaining external comfort and concealment (e.g. reducing hard edges that print, etc).

    @RCSMichael I had signed up for The Unkindness board and have been checking it periodically. I haven't seen any other emails come through about any new batch orders for testing, though I did see a few people mentioning they received theirs. Are there any more orders planned? Feel free to PM if it needs to be private.
    That is an excellent summary of the value proposition of this holster. Essentially, this method of manufacturing allows us to optimize the exterior of the holster for interacting with the body, and optimize the interior for interacting with the firearm, without having to compromise on either front.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    What pistols are initially supported?
    The initial run was for the Glock 43X & 48 MOS, and the Sig P365 XMacro.

    We will be opening the order books up for new cohorts this week, with the addition of the P365 and P365XL as a new fitment option. The XMacro and P365/P365XL will be separate SKUs.
    Michael Goerlich
    Owner
    Raven Concealment Systems, LLC
    www.ravenconcealment.com

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by centex View Post
    How useable is the mag carrier on this holster? Maybe it's just the angle in the photos I've seen, but the mag appears to seat very deeply in the holster and well below the top of the pistol. I'd typically carry a spare mag higher relative to the top of the slide to aid in extraction, but curious to hear others thoughts? I'm also assuming the mag ride height isn't adjustable? Curious more than anything, as I signed up to get in line for one yesterday.
    There was a great deal of thought put into the design of the magazine cavity, from its ride height and orientation to its magnetic retention feature.

    One of the easiest ways to spot someone carrying in a sidecar style holster is that the corner of the baseplate of their spare magazine is usually what prints through their cover garment. That's the result of two main issues:
    1) The ride height of the magazine is optimized for speed of reload, not concealment, which places it in a position that stands proud of the torso and belt line
    and
    2) Frequently, the magazine is being levered outward, away from the body, as a byproduct of force being exerted on the claw to tuck the pistol's grip.

    As a company with "Concealment" occupying 33% of our name, we felt that it was more appropriate to optimize for concealment first. Hence, the magazine is able to be put in with the rounds facing the gun, or facing away. Facing away is considered "wrong" from an "ergonomics and speed of the reload" perspective -- but actually allows greater concealability. So, unlike other holsters with an attached magazine carrier, this one gives you the choice of which is more important to you.

    You are correct that the magazine rides quite low in the cavity. However, when the pistol is out of the holster, the empty cavity where the gun usually rides allows you to drive your index finger into an indexed position that is almost the same as you'd get on a stand-alone AIWB mag carrier.

    Quote Originally Posted by joshs View Post
    I agree that the mag pouch is more a byproduct of the desing than intentional, but they didn't seem to put much effort into integrating it. There looks to be almost no ability to properly index the mag in the pouch.
    After nearly two and a half solid years of design and testing, and about 100 prototype iterations into this project, I can assure you that every single aspect of this magazine cavity was absolutely intentional -- and I'd dare say, obsessed over. As you can read in my previous comment, with the gun out of the holster cavity, indexing the mag is almost as quick and easy as on a stand-alone AIWB mag carrier.

    Whenever I see a comment like this, I feel compelled to point out that literally every single person involved in the development of this product -- and every other RCS product, for that matter -- is an experienced shooter. On top of that, we've been designing holsters full-time for nearly 20 years now. In just about any professional field, that's considered subject matter expertise. So when I see people imply (or directly state) that we somehow overlooked a key design flaw, or worse, that we just didn't care enough to do it the right way -- I think it's reasonable to point out how absurd (and insulting) such an assumption is to the very talented people who worked so hard to bring the product to life.

    Once again, I'd like to encourage everyone to check out the links I shared the other day. I have attempted to "show my work" as best I can, because I realize that this product line is a massive departure from the "known world" of AIWB holsters.

    I would recommend everyone take ~20 minutes to watch my appearance on the BTO podcast back in January, during which I did a deep-dive on the entire evolutionary process of this product. Skip to about the 30 minute mark to hear us talking about the Executive Select Series:
    https://link.rcsgear.com/btopodcastinterview

    And if you'd like to see more of us describing the philosophy and process of the design, here are a few IG posts:
    https://link.rcsgear.com/esspost1
    https://link.rcsgear.com/esspost2
    https://link.rcsgear.com/esspost3
    https://link.rcsgear.com/esspost4
    Michael Goerlich
    Owner
    Raven Concealment Systems, LLC
    www.ravenconcealment.com

  7. #167
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    I appreciate the thoughtful response @RCSMichael, and I look forward to trying this holster out once my number comes up!

  8. #168
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman A. House DDS View Post
    g43X/g48 and 365 series


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Darn. I’ll have to wait for a G26 or G19 version.
    “There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCSMichael View Post
    Whenever I see a comment like this, I feel compelled to point out that literally every single person involved in the development of this product -- and every other RCS product, for that matter -- is an experienced shooter. On top of that, we've been designing holsters full-time for nearly 20 years now. In just about any professional field, that's considered subject matter expertise. So when I see people imply (or directly state) that we somehow overlooked a key design flaw, or worse, that we just didn't care enough to do it the right way -- I think it's reasonable to point out how absurd (and insulting) such an assumption is to the very talented people who worked so hard to bring the product to life.
    My comments are based on having been reapeately disappointed with your past AIWB holsters and 15 years of experience shooting and competing with AIWB holsters including helping other holster makers with feedback on their designs.

    We probably just have a different idea about how accesible the body of a magazine should be when it is in a pouch in order to be properly indexed. This is why I still primarily use Custom Carry Concepts BMC pouches becasue they provide the best access to the magazine, or for an IWB pouch, the DSG Koala because it is purpose designed to allow proper indexing of the mag.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshs View Post
    My comments are based on having been reapeately disappointed with your past AIWB holsters and 15 years of experience shooting and competing with AIWB holsters including helping other holster makers with feedback on their designs.

    We probably just have a different idea about how accesible the body of a magazine should be when it is in a pouch in order to be properly indexed. This is why I still primarily use Custom Carry Concepts BMC pouches becasue they provide the best access to the magazine, or for an IWB pouch, the DSG Koala because it is purpose designed to allow proper indexing of the mag.
    Upon reading this, it sounds harsher than I intended. I was simply pointing out that you can't just claim that the product will work well because your team is made up of experienced shooters when a lot of people on this forum have had bad experience with your prior AIWB holsters. I also took it as a bit of "don't believe your lying eyes" when you claimed that the mag pouch is well designed to index the mag (but that may just be that you have a different idea about what indexing the mag in the pouch should look like). The holster itself and the opportunities for additive manufacturing in holster design are certainly very interesting.
    Last edited by joshs; 07-10-2024 at 07:45 PM.

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