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Thread: New RCS holster... Side car style

  1. #31
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    I was going to give it a running chance until I saw the backside (bodyside?). That looks really uncomfortable for that much surface area. Maybe that’s a pre-production prototype and they’ll incorporate something akin to the grooves that PHLster does on the new Floodlights.

    Sidecar holsters aren’t for me, anyhow; but as presented this thing looks like it lacks some refinement we see from other manufacturers.

    Quote Originally Posted by HCountyGuy View Post

    A long time ago, in a galaxy far away; I had this holster for my issued M9. It was decent for bumming around the COP and on larger FOBs. It stayed in the wire as I would just put the Beretta in a mag pouch for movement. It’s an objectively shit holster, but a decent bum around rig. <shrug>
    "Do nothing which is of no use." -Musashi

    What would TR do? TRCP BHA

  2. #32
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I am not going to put $10 down for a reservation when I don't have a price range for the final product.
    Yeah, that’s bunk.

    I’ll keep an open mind, but someone else will have to pay to beta test and/or for vaporware.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  3. #33
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealSelf View Post
    Skepticism is good, in a healthy dose but you seem skeptical in the extreme. Even if they have underdelivered on past products, in your opinion, it would be arrogant to me to assume this will be the same because well.... it's a *different* holster entirely. I believe you are doing a very *extreme* amount of speculating on the workings of RCS, saying they've not been relevant in ten years. They are still in business, that says something.

    In this world to even remain in business is not something to be taken for granted, good/great products or not. If the company needed 10 years to build for the future and/or get on good financial footing then that is their perogative. You as a consumer have zero right speculating on their business as a whole and the direction they have taken. Perhaps you should contact the owner directly rather than spout your best guess about this.

    I've never said they were the first to attempt to reinvent the holster but what I did say is that it's clear they've been willing to abandon the status quo in favor of trying to innovate. The reality is that you've not named a single company that is currently in business which is even in the conversation as attempting innovating at a deep level beyond just little tweaks and a few added 'features' here and there. Kydex is all very similar, IMO.

    You're speculating entirely that it will be a poor design based on looks alone, that's incredibly foolish IMO. The form is exactly what they felt it needed to be, they can literally 3D print these things in any shape they want. Why use a shape that looks 'wrong' if not for functional advantage? Looks can be deceiving and yet you somehow seem to consider yourself an expert on their entire business because you've tried a few of their products.

    The other thing is you're speculating for everyone as to whether a design 'works', in your view. Humans do not agree on anything being ideal in general, we have unique tastes and/or needs ultimately. One man's trash is another man's treasure, my friend. I hear people wax eloquently about all sorts of holsters and on the other side of the coin there are just as many who say it doesn't 'work' for them. 'Work' in this case is subjective, not objective. It holds a pistol to a belt, therefore it does work.

    I think you are missing the big picture entirely, most all holsters for the last 100 years as you mention, have been one or maybe two pieces of material that are molded around the pistol and bonded together (rivets, screws, thread, glue, etc). This may have been high tech for the last century but 3-D printing is clearly the way of the future when you can design any shape you want on CAD and there's almost an unlimited capacity to build it inexpensively.

    I do not know of any other makers going down this path on a large scale as this, naturally RCS is going to take what is likely a large amount of abuse over abandoning the old ways as the purists cry that the old ways work just fine.... blah, blah, blah.... you cannot reinvent the holster. As was said in Moneyball, " the first man over the wall always gets bloody". This will be no different but I predict that it will change the way makers approach building holsters from a materials standpoint if nothing else.
    1) I actually use enough additive manufacturing to not be convinced a holster is a good place.

    2) The assumption people are not using CAD in holster design is arrogant. Tenicor, Henry, Harry's holsters all use CAD, CNC, and injection molding.

    3) I don't need to name a bunch of companies. I can look at RCS's catalog for 10-years to see no innovation.

    4) Do you have a professional interest in RCS? Because these comments smack of them. If not you might want to evaluate what is driving your assumptions.

  4. #34
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Now I have a couple of min to write a longer, general response.

    That holsters are fundamentally tacos or molded pouches is a reflection of the likelihood that stowing large heavy objects is best done in some type of pouch. That's what backpacks are, messenger bags, arrow quivers, knife sheaths, etc.True innovation eliminates the pouch. Those holsters (and they do exist) are almost universally viewed as garbage for legitimate reasons. Mainly revolver around retention, safety, quality, and the fact that a pouch is probably close to the optimal solution.

    A 3D Printed pouch is still a pouch. If it can take on different shapes more easily, that doesn't change the core of it. Nor does it change the objective performance criteria it needs to meet to be a functional holster. It eliminates the fastener edges of a taco or pancake pouch, by being monolithic. And it replaces those edges instead with material thickness, because things that can be 3D printed have to add thickness to compensate for the loss of uniform material strength. There is no free lunch - even powdered metal additive manufacturing has to add thickness to parts that could be machined from stock to be thinner. The potential trade off is worth it from an ease of manufacturing/prototyping perspective, not because you get objectively superior products. In fact, that doesn't seem to be the case at all - overall you get objectively superior strength and weight performance when you make something from a single piece of material.

    Additive manufacturing, by the way, is many layers or many pieces formed into a unit. A leather hide or single sheet of kydex is a single unit. There much greater tensile strength and/or flexibility per unit area in those materials than additively manufactured units.

    Objectively, holsters are thinner and better today than ever before. Additive Manufacturing is almost certainly a step backwards, because it is not the correct manufacturing trade off we want - objectively - from holsters. Holsters need to be minimized in footprint and weight and optimized to fit a number of people. Many makers use advanced techniques and technology to refine and revise their products to meet these goals. By and large Raven has not been one of those in the last decade, where they have coasted on Government contracts. Nor am I suddenly convinced that they have gained radical and deep insight that has escaped other manufacturers that allows them to be luminaries in the field of making pouches for heavy objects.

    Finally, I turn to the knife field where just above every sheath material and manufacturing technique has been tried. Including monolithic injection molding and additive manufacturing. And the gold standard is still molded taco out of kydex or leather. Because universally those sheaths suck ass due to poor retention, bulk, and weak strength. But knife companies, which sell thousands of more knives and sheaths than Raven has ever sold holsters, use those methods of manufacture because they are cheap and easy to crank stuff out, not because they are better.

    Raven can prove me wrong and I hope they do. I'm not holding my breath. Just like each new "Glock Killer" every new "holster" is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And yet we all seem to return JCMK/DSG kydex or custom leather from 5-Shot or Milt Sparks. That the world's professionals return to these is what I call a...clue.

  5. #35
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    RB- FWIW

    I would disagree a bit that RCS has had no innovation in their line for the last 10 years

    the eidolon came out less than 10 years ago and I would humbly submit its feature set of
    1. Injection molding
    2. hyper adjustability
    3. ambidextrous nature
    4. under 100USD
    5. Widely available

    was innovative.

    https://soldiersystems.net/2015/01/1...sters-eidolon/

    Applying the same to the OWB Perun line a few years later was also innovative.

    https://soldiersystems.net/2017/11/1...perun-holster/


    Having said all of that- a deposit on an unknown product with an undisclosed sale price strikes me as a bit hinky and disappointing coming from RCS

    FWIW- I ran a Phantom back on the early 2000s. (G34/35 with a TLR 1)
    CS was dynamite when their .060 ish kydex would crack on the regular. Replacements shipped out promptly with no need to return the broken holster. Just a photo IIRC.
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  6. #36
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcdgrips View Post
    RB- FWIW

    I would disagree a bit that RCS has had no innovation in their line for the last 10 years

    the eidolon came out less than 10 years ago and I would humbly submit its feature set of
    1. Injection molding
    2. hyper adjustability
    3. ambidextrous nature
    4. under 100USD
    5. Widely available

    was innovative.

    https://soldiersystems.net/2015/01/1...sters-eidolon/

    Applying the same to the OWB Perun line a few years later was also innovative.

    https://soldiersystems.net/2017/11/1...perun-holster/


    Having said all of that- a deposit on an unknown product with an undisclosed sale price strikes me as a bit hinky and disappointing coming from RCS

    FWIW- I ran a Phantom back on the early 2000s. (G34/35 with a TLR 1)
    CS was dynamite when their .060 ish kydex would crack on the regular. Replacements shipped out promptly with no need to return the broken holster. Just a photo IIRC.
    Fair point on Eidolon - that was only 9 years ago.

    The Perun - I don't elevate to the same level. By the time the Perun came out Blade-Tech had been making injection molded OWB holsters with replaceable mounting hardware for 10-years and Comp-Tac for at least 3-4 years.

  7. #37
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    That looks uncomfortable as hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealSelf View Post
    Why use a shape that looks 'wrong' if not for functional advantage?
    To make money. The Serpa is a total piece of shit, yet people keep buying them. I carry a gun 8-10 hours every day, so I'm pretty qualified to say what I want in a holster, and this plastic brick isn't it.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

    Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...

  8. #38
    I wish them success, but there is a feature of my aging anatomy, that I am not particularly proud of, that makes a J-frame very easy to conceal on the strong side, or alternatively a magazine on my off side, that this approach would eliminate the advantage of. Hell, I have even started to shove my various belt buckles over off to the left of my centerline.

    Perhaps maybe Michael is still just as skinny as he was when he started selling holsters at Ohio Gun Collectors back when it was at Veteran's Memorial, when Hackathorn told us they were cool.

    ETA:
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  9. #39
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    I took the time to read the TaskerNetwork post on IG and a handful of RCS's responses to questions and comments.

    http://instagram.com/p/C4jQ7LEr6Rw/


    Conceptually - it seems RCS envisions this as a basically a way to rapidly produce hundreds or thousands of different configurations for end users. On the one hand - that seems admirable and a great goal. On the other, I have sincere doubts about how that will ultimately work. Both from logistics and from actual production and quality. The cageyness on details and the straight up aggression towards critics on social media does not further inspire confidence.

    I would like to know a lot more details about this. But not enough to sign up for a newsletter or plunk down cash on something. This is a pet peeve of mine - don't tell me it's cool - show me - the technical glory and details. If you're not ready - then the product isn't ready.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    That looks like a lot of stuff to stick in my pants. On one area.

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