New RCS holster... Side car style

[camel]

Allow me to be the biggest asshole in the room. It's my specialty.

You quite condescendingly asked those condemning this overpriced plastic brick of a gunholder if they had any experience running a business. RR quite succinctly answered and, in my opinion, proved himself more than qualified to debate the subject. So you did, in fact, ask for it. You apparently don't like the answer and are trying to backpedal and also move the goal posts.

While I hate to be the one using appeal to accomplishment the general active membership here has a moderate bit of experience with holsters, enough to know the proposed price isn't likely to match up to whatever claimed superawesomeninjagunning advantages this holster supposedly provides. It's been repeatedly stated we hope there's success with this and perhaps there's some manner of whizbangery to discover we're somehow limited in deducing from evaluation of the overall design. However, knowing what the community here knows about holsters and the general beneficial traits that aid in effectively concealing and comfortably carrying a gun all day from what's likely enough boxes of holsters between us to fill up a small warehouse there's a reasonable skepticism.

You continue to take any criticism of this as yet unreleased product as some personal attack akin to having kicked in your door and murdered your dog. You're the one perpetuating drama by getting your panties in a wad and playing passive-aggressive with folks rightfully expressing reservations of this being the greatest leap forward in holster technology ever.

As of now, RR has at least provided some background in order to help grant weight to his opinion on this matter. Until you provide something of having similar or greater knowledge/experience on why we should value YOUR opinion at all, howsabout you kitten off?

Wow. Couple weeks of from last post and very succinct. Not that I know anyone personally. But yeah.

[Joe S]

I read the whole thread and saw the Instagram photos. However, I still don't understand what the unique value proposition of this product is. Is this the most concealable? Is it the most comfortable? Is it the easiest way to carry a reload?

Looking at it entirely from the outside, I can see for a .gov contract, a way to have one SKU that is issued for off-duty/plainclothes work, rather than 2 (holster and mag pouch), that simultaneously kinda forces John and Jane field agent to carry a reload that they otherwise forego or just stick in a pocket. I'm not saying that is the best solution, just that I can see someone thinking it is a solution.

[Cool Breeze]

Looking at it entirely from the outside, I can see for a .gov contract, a way to have one SKU that is issued for off-duty/plainclothes work, rather than 2 (holster and mag pouch), that simultaneously kinda forces John and Jane field agent to carry a reload that they otherwise forego or just stick in a pocket. I'm not saying that is the best solution, just that I can see someone thinking it is a solution.

I could see that. I just found it odd that the company creates this new thing yet doesn't explain anything about it, what it does, or how it does what it does. It is not evident in the pictures alone that this is a better mousetrap for the end user.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I still can't get over the $200 pricetag

[Sig_Fiend]

I still don't see any reason why this couldn't have been injection molded and about $20-40, mass produced, sold at every big box store and Bass Pro that carries holsters. I mean, experimenting with additive technology for this purpose is a potentially cool idea with some interesting propositions. That said, the future for this one looks kind of bleak so far.

[Default.mp3]

I still don't see any reason why this couldn't have been injection molded and about $20-40, mass produced, sold at every big box store and Bass Pro that carries holsters. I mean, experimenting with additive technology for this purpose is a potentially cool idea with some interesting propositions. That said, the future for this one looks kind of bleak so far.

Posted by Nick Booras
Reading the comments here make it clear that many don’t understand the logistics and economics of manufacturing molded products, so let’s do a very overly simplified analysis to highlight some key points. Yes, I said overly simplified, don't try to nitpick my numbers because that's not the point here.

Let’s say you want a line of holsters that only covers the Glock 17, Glock 19, and Glock 21-size frames (3 total). Each frame size will require its own injection mold tool, which costs around $50k and takes 3-9 months to complete once the tool is commissioned. Each of these frame sizes will also require a version compatible with the most popular weapon lights, so we’ll assume 3 different light options across Streamlight and SureFire. You’ll also need these in left handed configurations, so automatically double the SKU count.

Here’s the math: 3 Frame Sizes w/o Weapon Light x 3 Frame Sizes w/ Weapon Light x 2 for Left Handed Variants = 18 total tools x $50k/tool = $900k investment. If you commission all tools at the same time you can overlap on production, but you can’t make all 18 at once at one vendor, so let’s assume 3 tools in work at a time at a best case production rate of 3 months from kick off to completion, or 1 tool/month on average = 18 months to be producing and selling parts for these 3 frame sizes. Reality is closer to 6-9 months per tool, but let’s be aggressive for the sake of argument. If you make $50 per holster, that puts your break even at 1000 units per tool, or 18,000 units across all variants, before you make a single penny of profit.

Do the math again for versions with compensators, a side car option, maybe one additional cant angle, and you’re still ONLY covering the 3 most popular Glock frame sizes and configurations. Do the math again to add the other most popular guns in America, including the G43/48, SIG P320, SIG P365, S&W M&P, 1911, and Springfield XD. Do the math again to add the lower volume gun variants/manufacturers like Staccato, CZ, Walther, and Beretta. Do the math again when Ruger or IWI launch a new gun, or worse yet make a modification that renders your tool obsolete and you have to invest tens of thousands of dollars and months of time to modify or recreate a new tool to accommodate the new hot thing.

So, to those of you questioning whether 3D printing is the future for holsters, this is why the answer is unquestionably yes. If an institutional user commits to a high volume, i.e. 100,000 generic P320 holsters for DHS, then yes, an injection mold might be the right option, but for everything else, 3D printing is the future.

One more thing to add…there are a lot of uninformed customers shitting on RCS and Michael for this entire concept right now, but I guarantee every holster maker in the country is on their order list and is already working on their own printed designs.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/PSPr...48816011831501

[Sig_Fiend]

Posted by Nick Booras
Reading the comments here make it clear that many don't understand the logistics and economics of manufacturing molded products, so let's do a very overly simplified analysis to highlight some key points. Yes, I said overly simplified, don't try to nitpick my numbers because that's not the point here.

Let's say you want a line of holsters that only covers the Glock 17, Glock 19, and Glock 21-size frames (3 total). Each frame size will require its own injection mold tool, which costs around $50k and takes 3-9 months to complete once the tool is commissioned. Each of these frame sizes will also require a version compatible with the most popular weapon lights, so we'll assume 3 different light options across Streamlight and SureFire. You'll also need these in left handed configurations, so automatically double the SKU count.

Here's the math: 3 Frame Sizes w/o Weapon Light x 3 Frame Sizes w/ Weapon Light x 2 for Left Handed Variants = 18 total tools x $50k/tool = $900k investment. If you commission all tools at the same time you can overlap on production, but you can't make all 18 at once at one vendor, so let's assume 3 tools in work at a time at a best case production rate of 3 months from kick off to completion, or 1 tool/month on average = 18 months to be producing and selling parts for these 3 frame sizes. Reality is closer to 6-9 months per tool, but let's be aggressive for the sake of argument. If you make $50 per holster, that puts your break even at 1000 units per tool, or 18,000 units across all variants, before you make a single penny of profit.

Do the math again for versions with compensators, a side car option, maybe one additional cant angle, and you're still ONLY covering the 3 most popular Glock frame sizes and configurations. Do the math again to add the other most popular guns in America, including the G43/48, SIG P320, SIG P365, S&W M&P, 1911, and Springfield XD. Do the math again to add the lower volume gun variants/manufacturers like Staccato, CZ, Walther, and Beretta. Do the math again when Ruger or IWI launch a new gun, or worse yet make a modification that renders your tool obsolete and you have to invest tens of thousands of dollars and months of time to modify or recreate a new tool to accommodate the new hot thing.

So, to those of you questioning whether 3D printing is the future for holsters, this is why the answer is unquestionably yes. If an institutional user commits to a high volume, i.e. 100,000 generic P320 holsters for DHS, then yes, an injection mold might be the right option, but for everything else, 3D printing is the future.

One more thing to add...there are a lot of uninformed customers shitting on RCS and Michael for this entire concept right now, but I guarantee every holster maker in the country is on their order list and is already working on their own printed designs.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/PSPr...48816011831501

Thank you for that, seriously. Learning has occurred. Damn, it's still morning and I've already become "that guy" for the day. Went ahead and signed up for the wait list as penance. Learn from my mistakes.

The $10 gets you into Raven's private social platform which has additional details and pics of the product in use/testing. I actually kind of like what I see. No sooner have I made a fool of myself this morning, and here I am now kind of considering buying this thing.

As an aside, from a marketing and business standpoint, I think what Raven is doing with this private social site is a fantastic idea more manufacturers should take advantage of. A lot of value for all sides in that potential for interaction, even at the prototype stage of product development.

[Cool Breeze]

I still contest the manufacturing process is still irrelevant to the end user. How does this benefit me? The argument is that they can create any configuration at a lower tool up cost than injection molding. Cool - then why aren't those savings being passed on to the consumer as this thing is still $200. The is the similar argument they made with the Perun and its price reflected those savings. Something seems rotten in the state of Denmark.

[WobblyPossum]

I still contest the manufacturing process is still irrelevant to the end user. How does this benefit me? The argument is that they can create any configuration at a lower tool up cost than injection molding. Cool - then why aren't those savings being passed on to the consumer as this thing is still $200. The is the similar argument they made with the Perun and its price reflected those savings. Something seems rotten in the state of Denmark.

Bingo. It’s long been known that setting up for injection molding production was expensive and time consuming. Additive manufacturing/3D Printing should greatly decrease both the cost of production and the time necessary to get products to market. So why is this the most expensive plastic holster ever sold? Shouldn’t it be cheaper than the average injection molded holster?

[HeavyDuty]

Bingo. It’s long been known that setting up for injection molding production was expensive and time consuming. Additive manufacturing/3D Printing should greatly decrease both the cost of production and the time necessary to get products to market. So why is this the most expensive plastic holster ever sold? Shouldn’t it be cheaper than the average injection molded holster?

I think it depends on the run time.