SF soldier on competition shooting

[okie john]

My kid shot with a bunch of SOG folks on the Syrian border when he was flying gunship support for their operations. They did at least bi-weekly pistol/rifle matches at that deployment, usually two different stages. He said it was some of the most brutal shit talking/cat calling he'd ever seen.

Heh.

I shot IDPA near Portland, OR, for a couple of years with an old buddy from 1st SFG(A). Shit talking each other was almost more fun than the match. Some of the other competitors were horrified, which made it that much better.


Okie John

[Jim Watson]

They are sure not elite AGEs but my IDPA Protege and the club MD are back and forth at each other all day long.
If she beats him, it gets even more lively. I don't know what triggered it, they are normally kind of calm and quiet.

[mmc45414]

For the others, there’s always emigration to the UK, where “armed police” and SOF probably are the best shooters around.

This quote is correct IME: "If there's tactical guys that still are against competitive shooting, its one, they've never tried it, and they don't understand it, and the only see pictures of guys out there with their raceguns, or they've tried it, and frankly they sucked at it, they got their feelings hurt, so they poo poo it now, writing it off, saying it adds no value."

A close friend is/was Canadian .mil and an avid IPSC shooter way back then and had an occasion to shoot a match with some visiting SAS guys. They were humbled, but cool about it, and he assured them they were probably much better with their MP-5s (but he was maybe just being nice, my friend is a pretty good shooter).

ETA: I also enjoy skeet shooting, for sure is just a game, but I contend that shooting a hundred moving targets every week all summer is not exactly gonna degrade my ability to defend myself. I actually feel it helps on those occasions when we shoot moving targets with shotguns or pistols.

[Archer1440]

A young man of my acquaintance who decided to go into the Navy for very serious work, after barely missing a slot on the 2016 Olympic team in my sport, turns up at my local USPSA matches every few months. He managed 3/10ths of a percent better than our own YVK, and only about 1% behind Lena Miculek, shooting CO, in his most recent appearance. A credible performance.

Back in 1996, I made the acquaintance of a number of his predecessors stationed on Coronado, who turned up as volunteers for a World Championship event in San Diego, and later was privileged to borrow an incredibly rattly yet accurate P226 so I could shoot with that bunch a few times.

They were very, very good.

[Magsz]

One of the biggest ideas that I see constantly carrying over into this conversation is a delineation between "tactical guys" or "combat shooters" and "competition shooters".

I hear it all the time from my training cadre.

"You move like a competition shooter". "That's a nice competition reload". "I know you've got a competition background but I need you to slow down on this next drill".

I honestly have no clue what the fuck any of that shit means and to me, its a constant source of irritation. As I get older and further into my career, it bothers me less but it's still an irritation nonetheless.

Shooting is shooting regardless of the venue. Tactics are tactics regardless of the venue. The shooting is either done at a high level of proficiency or its not. The tactics are either sound, or they are not.

You absolutely can combine high level shooting with sound tactics.

Anyone who carries a gun for a living should be seeking out training in both areas and then practicing accordingly.

I work for a very large department and I only know of a handful of Deputies that have competed or are competing. None of them have habits that are going to get them killed due to their "competitive background".

The people that have habits that are inclined to get them killed are the ones that DONT spend time handling guns outside of in service and the call for service that requires a drawn firearm.

I've also found that competition has enhanced my ability to cognitively process under stress. The idea of unconscious competence comes to mind. I'd rather think about my stage plan as I'm executing it than "is my grip right?" "Oh damn, I dunno where my dot is!".

The gun comes out and instead of focusing on the physical action of employing the firearm I am searching for threats, addressing threats, giving commands while doing what needs doing. The gun is simply there should it be needed.

Long story short...go compete. It absolutely will make you better if you carry a gun professionally or shit, if you carry a damn gun. Just DO IT.

[Velociginger]

I was one of these guys. I’m not proud of it, but it’s just the internet.
I wasn’t Ninja CAG TM 6 Scuba Samurai Cool Guy, but as far as the military was concerned, I was pretty proficient.
After being humbled in BJJ by guys weaker and softer than me, I figured I’d try IDPA, USPSA, and ICORE. Humbled again at every turn. In both cases, my ego was bruised for about 24-48 hours. Then I realized that the struggle is the point, and kept going back. Competition breeds excellence, and the weight of ego would drag me to the bottom of a very deep sea.
Now, when I get caught in a Peruvian Necktie by a college kid that can’t buy his own beer, or smoked on a stage by some CPA with type 2 diabetes, it’s OK. I learned something from it (hopefully), and those guys struggled too. I enjoy seeing others succeed (even at my loss) and learned to welcome the opportunity to junk-punch my ego.

The dismissal of competition as “gamer stuff” is a defense mechanism to protect the ego. I know, I told myself that for about a day. “Yeah but I’ve done it for real/could he do it in kit/we’re not throwing punches/nobody is shooting back….” It’s all a variation of the “git you killed in da streetz” mantra, and it’s all crap.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The gamer defense mechanisms are a two edged sword. Will it get you killed on the street? Or is the game actually training and you don't need actual 'fightin' oriented training. I seem to recall a departed member who made that latter strong claim. Do both, they complement each other, IMHO.

Now as a fat, old, bad knees, civilian - I've done serious FOF, IDPA, USPSA and Steel Challenge. It's all part of the mix and reinforce and add skills. Can I do the USPSA track meet - no, I can't. Can I make decent hits on targets, yes I can - so I happily shoot matches. Am I going to do martial arts anymore - nope - various reasons about risks and care taking responsibilities. Will I get killed on the street? Maybe.

I do shoot gear that is more compatible to EDC as compared to various 'game' guns. That works for me. I've noted that my hits with irons in our indoor matches are respectable. Trying out a SRO Glock 17 - would I carry a dot G26 (G26 is my EDC with irons), I dunno. Still would need convincing that it would be more than a marginal gain.

[mmc45414]

nobody is shooting back

Have always loved this one. Sooooo, if you are unable to do it when the target is a stationary piece of cardboard that is not shooting back you will somehow have an enabling transformation if the target is mobile and is firing back? Um, OK...

ETA: Some of my favorite stuff that we do not do frequently enough is man against man on steel plate racks, start at your outside target and get to the middle plate before the other guy. You only need to shoot as fast as fast enough.

[DMF13]

Have always loved this one. Sooooo, if you are unable to do it when the target is a stationary piece of cardboard that is not shooting back you will somehow have an enabling transformation if the target is mobile and is firing back? Um, OK...

This x1000.

I'd also.like.to know where all the anti competition "nobody is shooting back" guys are getting to practice with someone shooting at them.

ETA: Some of my favorite stuff that we do not do frequently enough is man against man on steel plate racks, start at your outside target and get to the middle plate before the other guy. You only need to shoot as fast as fast enough.

I love doing drills like that.

Another one, I learned about here, that I like for big grouos, is to set up a drill, and have the whole group shoot together on the line. Anyone who misses, is "out," and if no one misses, the last to fire is "out." Keep going until one person wins. It allows everyone, even those knocked out early, to get in more reps, and is great for ranges where we arwnt allowed to shoot steel. I keep it simple, often with the target being an 8" circle, and do a Bill drill, or start with 3 rounds in the gun, and draw, fire three, reload, and fire 3 more.

[CCT125US]

Have always loved this one. Sooooo, if you are unable to do it when the target is a stationary piece of cardboard that is not shooting back you will somehow have an enabling transformation if the target is mobile and is firing back? Um, OK...

ETA: Some of my favorite stuff that we do not do frequently enough is man against man on steel plate racks, start at your outside target and get to the middle plate before the other guy. You only need to shoot as fast as fast enough.

Looking forward to our next match.