Who needs Cartels, jihadis or Chinese sleeper cellss?

[RevolverRob]

Does parental and personal accountability come into play?

My tongue-in-cheek response is, "Is it currently in play?" -

Then I think we kind of know the answer is - yes - but...

In an ideal world any person's support network begins with family and that is ideally 'enough' (it isn't, but that's a separate issue). The challenge of correcting that this support network has been absent for generations now means changing hearts and minds today starts the corrective path. But doesn't solve the problem in it's entirety nor does it solve it quickly.

Or see as our peers below note in far more articulate answers than I could hope to provide:

One would think so but the people having these kids are products of the social collapse of their economic/ethnic/racial cohort. To expect them become Ward and June Cleaver when you yell at them, isn't going to happen.

Did some volunteer work with young girls who became pregnant and thrown out of middle and high school. The idea was to aid in them learning the math requirements. They became 'parents'. The increase in single parent, young mother homes due to the lack of good jobs for males is well known across the world, not just here. Add racial discrimination for the available jobs as happened for many years and it's a toxic mix.

Biden had it correct, when he mentioned that kids in those homes hear a million less words, not read to etc. in their early development. Starting with studies on visual and language deprivation we know that this interferes with experience expectant growth of cortical neural structures. This is hard to correct later in life and maybe impossible. Language skills, cognitive skills, social controls of aggression, etc. are forming and are disrupted.

Thus, parental responsibility is great and perhaps we can teach it to kids approaching middle school and high school to break the cycle but the cliche doesn't help much.

Now in some cases, it does. The parents, of seeming 'normal' family structure, who buy obviously disturbed kids guns and that goes south - yep, put them in jail as a deterrent to others. But those are rarer cases in the rampages.

Yes, but lack of personal accountability and bad parents are both products of the root issues that @RevolverRob is talking about. With the root issues present, we'll continue with the trend of bad kids becoming bad parents.

Even if we were to fix the root issues overnight, it would still take several generations for the family issues to improve.

This isn't an excuse to bad behavior in society....it's simply an acknowledgement to the "why". It's no secret that kids who grow up in awful conditions but have some sort of positive support network which sets the right conditions that Rob is referring to (such as an afterschool program, JROTC, boy scouts, church, whatever) tend to come out ahead compared to kids that don't have that support network. That support network teaches them personal accountability, and they usually go on to become productive citizens and good parents.

___

Agreed..

That's why we need to get government out of the business of administering charity in the misguided claim of social welfare.

In general I agree. However, there is something to be said for a 'Federal' approach to mentorship and network development. In the sense that we live in a global society and often charity begins (and ends) at home in a narrowly focused area of effect. This is positive and negative, the positive is the direct and often immediate impact on people. The negative is the narrowness and resource limitations that come with a local reach.

I know there are national and international charity orgs. But there is something to be said for the backing of the Fed to a degree to enhance reach and breadth. We could of course reorganize things to make them more efficient and positive.

[RoyGBiv]

In general I agree. However, there is something to be said for a 'Federal' approach to mentorship and network development. In the sense that we live in a global society and often charity begins (and ends) at home in a narrowly focused area of effect. This is positive and negative, the positive is the direct and often immediate impact on people. The negative is the narrowness and resource limitations that come with a local reach.

I know there are national and international charity orgs. But there is something to be said for the backing of the Fed to a degree to enhance reach and breadth. We could of course reorganize things to make them more efficient and positive.

If you had to look a charitable neighbor in the eye before you got what is currently being given away via direct deposit by a government administrator, behavior would certainly not be what it is today.... Not only would that local charity hold you accountable for your actions, but they would also provide some mentorship and guidance that Uncle Sam cannot.

[DDTSGM]

Agreed..

That's why we need to get government out of the business of administering charity in the misguided claim of social welfare.

In general I agree. However, there is something to be said for a 'Federal' approach to mentorship and network development. In the sense that we live in a global society and often charity begins (and ends) at home in a narrowly focused area of effect. This is positive and negative, the positive is the direct and often immediate impact on people. The negative is the narrowness and resource limitations that come with a local reach.

I know there are national and international charity orgs. But there is something to be said for the backing of the Fed to a degree to enhance reach and breadth. We could of course reorganize things to make them more efficient and positive.

If you had to look a charitable neighbor in the eye before you got what is currently being given away via direct deposit by a government administrator, behavior would certainly not be what it is today.... Not only would that local charity hold you accountable for your actions, but they would also provide some mentorship and guidance that Uncle Sam cannot.

I absolutely agree with RR and TGS on the root causes and Roy, I agree with you in principle. To me, the problem with so many of these things revolves around our idea of fairness.

In the matter of getting government out of social welfare programs and transferring the bulk of the efforts to charitable organizations the issues of sufficient funding and fairness pop up. Not everyone gives to charity, very few give in the amount which would be necessary to generate the moneys required. In terms of fairness, how fair is it to those who give compared to those who give nothing?

I think we are well past the 'old days' where communities took care of their poor folks and widows. Our ideas and practices of Religious Faith have changed, as has our reliance on community as a social support group.

In terms of cash effectiveness our sense of fairness also gets in the way of getting folks out of poverty.

Many single parents cant pursue college/professional/vocational education because they can't afford child support. Often, as they have increases in salary, their social benefits are reduced, trapping them in a cycle of poverty which also entraps their children. What would it look like if we supported single parents who want an education to pursue higher paying jobs through the process of that education? What would the price of that short term support look like compared to long term social assistance? What impact would it have on the children? What would $150,000 spent over a two year period to get a single parent a nursing degree look like compared to the expenses the way we do it now?

The sticking point is that it just wouldn't be fair to other folks who don't get or need that short term support, so it will likely never happen.

(went a bit of topic)

[Erick Gelhaus]

Sadly, if any punishment is meted out - it will likely be minimal.

[frankmissing]

As this whole story has unfolded in the local news, it has shaken Mrs. Fatdog about how vile, brutal, feral some of our local yutes actually are. Here.A needed reminder. We cleaned and inspected her USP/c then refreshed the carry ammo this past weekend, and made a date to go to the range next Sunday afternoon.

In such cases, not only pepper spray is needed, but also something heavier!