Bullseye Berettas

[john c]

That it is. Shoots like a laser beam. Note that mechanical precision is mostly due to the conical bushing similar to those fitted to the Stock and Combat variants.

You've posted a lot of high end pistols over the years. Was the juice worth the squeeze, dollar-for-dollar, on this pistol versus other high end 9mm pistols? I guess using accuracy and shootability as the criteria. Obviously, it's a beautiful gun.

[gato naranja]

Back when I was shooting bullseye a lot, the only real viable option was the Ultradot. I would have thought the explosion in high quality reflex dots would have opened the field.

We still have two UltraDots on guns that get regularly used. Those things are getting on in years, but they get the job done and don't miss a beat. I sold a third one to finance a "better mousetrap" and it did not take long for me to find out that I swapped a solid, functional optic for one that promised much but delivered mostly problems.

[JRV]

You bring up a tangential point that I've wondered about. My area isn't very active with service pistol shooting, so I'm a little out of the loop. Are people building competition guns on the M17 or M18? In the future, will the competition allow for dot sights at some point in the future, presumably when dots are standard equipment? Just idle curiosity.

Great point about the open emitter sights not being competitive. Back when I was shooting bullseye a lot, the only real viable option was the Ultradot. I would have thought the explosion in high quality reflex dots would have opened the field.

AMU has started accurizing the M17 per some folks connected to the AMU on the Bullseye-L Facebook group.

I have no clue how they’re doing triggers or which sights they’re using. Probably GrayGuns triggers with some tuning for overtravel…

If—big “if”—the CMP ever opens up Service Pistol to include modern electronic service pistol sights, think a round-body closed emitter sight on the ACRO footprint would be the ticket.

Ultradots… I’m 0 for 2 on Ultradots lasting. I started a thread on bullseye forum about durability issues, and even their biggest proponents are reporting 20-33% failure rates within a season or two. Aimpoint 9000SC or Micro are really the only viable long-term options for a wadgun, but the modern Chinese microdots (newer Primary Arms, Holosuns, Sig Romeo 5s) seem to hold up just fine on wadguns. Better than Ultradots, at least.

[zeleny]

You've posted a lot of high end pistols over the years. Was the juice worth the squeeze, dollar-for-dollar, on this pistol versus other high end 9mm pistols? I guess using accuracy and shootability as the criteria. Obviously, it's a beautiful gun.

I generally avoid thinking in terms of benefit-cost ratio, but it makes sense in this case. Dave Sams’ Beretta Centennial is one of three guns on my CCW permit. The other two are a Sixties’ production SIG P210-6 retrofitted with Dobler adjustable sights and a 2021 production Meister Manufaktur Walther PPQ Q4 SF topped with an Aimpoint ACRO P-2. The Walther cost me about half of Dave Sams’ AMU spec Beretta build that represents the epitome of Seventies’ handgun technologies. These three guns are more or less equal in mechanical precision, with a slight edge going to the Beretta fitted with its custom top end. Ergonomically, for my long-fingered size 9 hand, the Walther leads the pack, followed by the SIG fitted with a screw-on beavertail. The Beretta is a bit girthy for me, the SIG too svelte, and the Walther feels just right, with its bonus metallic grips vibes. Technically, the Beretta has the best trigger, with a short reset enabling faster splits. The two-stage trigger of the SIG is just as good for deliberate shooting. However, the two-stage trigger of the Walther has a much shorter reset, with its second stage approaching the SIG in crispness. Long story short, the Beretta gives me a discernible advantage in a slow course of fire, but it’s the striker fired Walther FTW in social work.

[john c]

I generally avoid thinking in terms of benefit-cost ratio, but it makes sense in this case. Dave Sams’ Beretta Centennial is one of three guns on my CCW permit. The other two are a Sixties’ production SIG P210-6 retrofitted with Dobler adjustable sights and a 2021 production Meister Manufaktur Walther PPQ Q4 SF topped with an Aimpoint ACRO P-2. The Walther cost me about half of Dave Sams’ AMU spec Beretta build that represents the epitome of Seventies’ handgun technologies. These three guns are more or less equal in mechanical precision, with a slight edge going to the Beretta fitted with its custom top end. Ergonomically, for my long-fingered size 9 hand, the Walther leads the pack, followed by the SIG fitted with a screw-on beavertail. The Beretta is a bit girthy for me, the SIG too svelte, and the Walther feels just right, with its bonus metallic grips vibes. Technically, the Beretta has the best trigger, with a short reset enabling faster splits. The two-stage trigger of the SIG is just as good for deliberate shooting. However, the two-stage trigger of the Walther has a much shorter reset, with its second stage approaching the SIG in crispness. Long story short, the Beretta gives me a discernible advantage in a slow course of fire, but it’s the striker fired Walther FTW in social work.

Thanks. I appreciate the comparison. For the OP, who seems to want a premium pistol for general service, I figured a better choice would be something a bit more modern.

Are there any other options you'd recommend among high end pistols?

[Cory]

That it is. Shoots like a laser beam. Note that mechanical precision is mostly due to the conical bushing similar to those fitted to the Stock and Combat variants.

I remember that there used be a member of Beretta Forum who would add those conical bushings to other 92 variants, I think his name was WAL. They were generally regarded as "laser beams" by everyone that owned or shot them. I can't help but wonder how those bushings coupled with today's improvements would fair.

[CraigS]

Cory you are correct. WAL does bushings and a lot of other stuff too. He would be a great guy to call.

[Bergeron]

Thanks. I appreciate the comparison. For the OP, who seems to want a premium pistol for general service, I figured a better choice would be something a bit more modern.

Are there any other options you'd recommend among high end pistols?

I'm very appreciative of being able to discuss these guns. I have interest in the 92 as a US military pistol and as platform that appears to respond strongly to gunsmithing. My idea of a fixe up Beretta is simply to have a neat gun, I don't think it'll do "pistol things" in any real meaningfully better way than either my 1911s or Glocks, but as a high quality, all-metal double stack 9mm with better-than-typical accuracy.

[HCM]

We still have two UltraDots on guns that get regularly used. Those things are getting on in years, but they get the job done and don't miss a beat. I sold a third one to finance a "better mousetrap" and it did not take long for me to find out that I swapped a solid, functional optic for one that promised much but delivered mostly problems.

I ran an Ultra dot on the carry handle of my AR from the early 90s through the late 90s when I upgraded to an Aimpoint comp M.

The Ultra dot is still going strong. Getting ready to put it on another carry handle mount.

[john c]

I ran an Ultra dot on the carry handle of my AR from the early 90s through the late 90s when I upgraded to an Aimpoint comp M.

The Ultra dot is still going strong. Getting ready to put it on another carry handle mount.

Ultradots have always worked well for me, but I've always had them on frame mounts (on pistols) or on rifles. I guess having them on reciprocating slides, like a lot of red dots, causes the problems.

What mount did you use for mounting it on a carryhandle?