If you knew you had to operate dominant hand only....

[SCCY Marshal]

I'll throw in for consideration that a 1911 safety locks the slide closed and prevents any possibility that it will be kicked out of battery while holstering. In addition, riding the hammer while reholstering break contact with the grip safety, activating a third barrier to a negligent discharge.

But I'm the guy who spends most of his dryfire with safety and decocker guns practicing up/disengage, down/re-engage without my trigger finger even coming out of register. When practice is free and that easy, the debate around training for safety usage being problematic or a burden seems spurious.

[DocGKR]

I've directly seen lives saved by an activated safety on a handgun, so ya, I am in favor of an engaged safety for an exposed duty pistol. Yet despite that preference, I now carry a G19--because it has a reasonable size standard capacity magazine and goes bang every time.

[Erick Gelhaus]

While it has been a while —so long ago— that I wasn't using dots on off-duty guns, I had to do this twice: SHO for about two months and then, a couple of years later, 3+ months WHO.

During the SHO phase, I was carrying either a Commander or a G19. Carried a spare magazine for the Commander behind the holster, or everything went in an Eagle Ind fanny pack.

When it was WHO, I borrowed an OWB holster from a buddy and carried the G19. I did the same thing with the magazine — behind the holster.

[SouthNarc]

I know of a non-zero number of people who were disarmed and weren't shot seemingly as a result of either a manual safety or an empty chamber. I know of significantly more people who seemingly lost their gunfight due to the same.

BBI just so I'm clear you're saying you have no cases of a manual safety keeping a good guy from getting shot after they were disarmed right?

Also can you make a distinction between safeties and empty chambers getting people killed? Carrying condition three is one issue but I'm curious about the specific instances where a manual safety got a good guy killed because they couldn't disengage it. Can you parse those events out from the others?

[breakingtime91]

The more I think of this, the more I think it's a training issue. Is it locked on people carrying MS? Or people who are actually afriad of firearms so they carry manual safety with very little training in its use or understanding of how to fight with a gun?

[breakingtime91]

The more I think of this, the more I think it's a training issue. Is it locked on people carrying MS? Or people who are actually afriad of firearms so they carry manual safety with very little training in its use or understanding of how to fight with a gun?

Like the difference between a combat arms job in the military versus a non combat job. Like ya, they are both technically trained, but there is a huge difference in performance between the two. Safe vs unsafe honestly

[SouthNarc]

Like the difference between a combat arms job in the military versus a non combat job. Like ya, they are both technically trained, but there is a huge difference in performance between the two. Safe vs unsafe honestly

Or the distinction I make of an armed profession versus a profession of arms.

[BehindBlueI's]

BBI just so I'm clear you're saying you have no cases of a manual safety keeping a good guy from getting shot after they were disarmed right?

No, non-zero. As in some, but nearly zero. Magazine disconnect, zero personally but also a non-zero number if you include second hand accounts.

Also can you make a distinction between safeties and empty chambers getting people killed?

I've detailed it out more in other places, but in brief form:

1) Female victim pulled trigger, safety still on, disarmed and raped/beaten by home invader (true stranger crime, serial robbers). Multiple variations of this when under pressure and at close quarters the shooter failed to deactivate the safety. Some folks on video who showed signs of pulling the trigger, no bang, and while they couldn't give a statement due to the deads the crime lab found the safety on and the gun functioned in testing with no issue.

2) Male victim intervening in robbery of an armed car guard, fired a shot but somehow flipped safety back on and couldn't figure it out in time to engage further. Didn't result in a loss, just put him out of the gunfight he started.

If *you* specifically wanted to carry a thumb safety, I'd never attempt to tell you not to. For the vast majority of people who are not at the level you are in both shooting and close quarters control tactics, no. I'm semi-trained at best and want no part of it myself.

[SouthNarc]

If *you* specifically wanted to carry a thumb safety, I'd never attempt to tell you not to. For the vast majority of people who are not at the level you are in both shooting and close quarters control tactics, no. I'm semi-trained at best and want no part of it myself.

Nah and I wasn't asking for me personally just the data you've accrued. The one pistol shooting I've had was with a 1911 and I had no problem personally with hitting the thumb safety. I do put quite a bit of time though into my weapons systems that I carry.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Dammit, I love this place!!

I can think of nowhere else where folks can disagree without being disagreeable, can state their case without pontificating, and consider...and even support... an opposing viewpoint.