Langdon Tactical follow up

[spence]

This thread is my first sight of this purported problem that OP had. Like @Cory said, they're a company made of people, and that means they're capable of screw ups. I had a situation with a RDO slide where it was sent back multiple times to LTT, with all communication at that point having been via email. The third time the same issue occurred, I made a phone call. I still had to drop an email, but it prompted a phone call back to me in short order from Aimee. They fixed the issue in far better fashion than i would have hoped, and it was most assuredly at their expense. I will continue to be a loyal customer.

That said, they're a growing company. I believe when I first started buying 92 parts from them, their only products were geared to PX4s and 92's. You called their phone number, and Aimee answered the phone. I remember thinking that was weird when I called for something years ago. As with any company and growth, things morph and evolve. There's more people, and more room for error to happen at that point. It's just a fact of life.

[JonInWA]

Companies need to have some sort trip wire mechanism in place to let them know when something or someone is going sideways. Communications issues in messaging and discussions with Boing somewhat aside (and only somewhat-he admitted, and I think we can all see that there was some unintentional confusion and incomplete information provided on his part, as well as a decision not to send in his complete slide assembly (which probably would have quickly ID'd and diagnosed and corrected the issue), obviously the resolution process went awry at LTT.

I'm exceptionally appreciative of LTT and Ernest and Aimee and their products-both tangible, software-wise, and community wise. But something went wrong, and I hope they've put in place systems to prevent re-occurrences.

It sounds like it took GJM's personal intercession to give LTT a proverbial Gibbs head-slap and to provide belated conversation with Boing and corrective action. This post by Ernest is reveraling-

"I did look into this and we did drop the ball. I am sorry that we did not get back to you in a timely manner, that is 100% on us and has been addressed internally here.

This is not the best place to reach out if you are having an issue. If it was not for someone reaching out to tell us about this, who knows how long it would have been before I saw it. I do not check in here very often anymore. Not because I don't what to, I just have to direct time to other things.

Thank you for your understanding. Langdon Tactical is alive and well."

Unfortunately, like it or not, Boing's post here was exactly what it took, because LTT had him on ignore. He'd tried to communicate with them, with crickets as the result-what the heck else was he supposed to do, or who else should he have gone to before posting here publicly?

The great thing about the p-f community is that there are connected individuals like GJM present, and willing to deftly step in and help. That's the real success here-along with Ernest's/LTT's corrective actions on behalf of Boing.

Best, Jon

[zaitcev]

Even in the face of this explanation, the rep insisted that it had to be user error. It was at this profoundly retarded moment that I realized I was at a dead end. For some reason, they believed sending me a new sight would fix “my” installation mistake. I agreed to take the new sight only because I expected that they might pull the correct part from their stock this time. This is what happened.

They just wanted to save face. I'm pretty sure everyone knew that they screwed up, just didn't want to admit it. In the end you got the right part, which is a good outcome.

But at least Langdon people were prideful and not stupid like a sack of rocks, which happened to me in the past. I ordered a spring p/n 177 from a company "X". When it arrived, it clearly was a spring p/n 777. I called them, explained, they agreed to send me a correct spring. When it arrived, it was 777. So what happens is this: they have support people fielding the calls, and they have a warehouse where a minimum wage monkey pulls springs from cubicles and tosses them into envelopes. And someone refilled a cubicle for 177 springs with 777 springs. There was no way to get through. I waited 2 years and ordered another 177 again, and it arrived with no issue. In these 2 years, they drained the cubicle and re-filled it.

[BehindBlueI's]

Two things can be true at the same time.
1) Ernest and Aimee are good people.
2) Their company is changing and capable of fuck ups.

I carry a Langdon M9, got to request a low serial LTT Elite when they first launched, and have been a fan of their stuff for awhile. I say that because I want to be clear that I'm not anti-LTT. I wear one of their shirts a fair amount. But. They aren't some magical company who is always flawless and beyond question. As they have grown it's beyond dispute that things have changed. More products, more employees, more innovation. And it's no longer a 1 man shop. With that there are more things to consider, more to oversee, and more to potentially go wrong.

For example, I think they fucked up with their Aridus Industries relationship. I read the posts Ernest made, I get why the choices were made and the stuff that they had to consider. There were more moving parts, more timelines, and more pressure to put out the product that LTT wanted. I still think it wasn't the way to go, still call it an Aridus 1301. Doesn't mean I'm not still an LTT fan, but I'm not blind either.

Now, it appears a customer had a problem and the employees at LTT stopped talking with him. He made a public post to draw the attention to get his problem solved. Which worked.

Heres the problem I have and it isn't really with Ernest or LTT: When other beloved companies here have an issue (ala JMCK) the community normally says "They'll take care of ya" because the company does that. And then the owner comes in and its over. We don't have a "how dare you" attitude, but rather a "they're good, they will get you sorted out" attitude. The signal to noise ratio here is really high, and I don't think we should be bias blind because of track record. Amazing reputations are built for a reason, and should be respected. But, they should also be re-enforced.

Here, the owner responded defensively as if beyond reproach. And some of the community as acting as if that company is beyond any question. But they aren't. Why is it "how dare you question or publicly say anything" so to speak? The guy wouldn't have posted here if calling and emailing had worked. I don't think acting offended was the best approach, not really my style. But it's also not my company, and my opinion on it is of little value. Les Baer isn't known for having an awesome personality, but he does just fine despite my thoughts.

I like LTT, I've bought from LTT, I will buy from LTT again. I have enormous respect for Ernest and his accomplishments, and the amazing 92 resurgence that I think he is 90% responsible for. He has been an awesome SME here as well. But the days of him being an active participant here are mostly gone. And if something goes wrong with his company and it's questioned (even if not true) it seems like there are better ways to respond. More bothersome to me, is the idea that any company is beyond a mistake. As a forum, we've really espoused the test it yourself and find out if YOUR gun is reliable mentality. Find out for yourself if this technique is viable, and go actually learn to develop skill. I think that is really positive. It's just odd to me that we don't have the same mentality here. I love Beretta guns deeply, but I'm willing to express frustration with the company at times. LTT is no different. Just because we like and respect the owner, like the products, doesn't mean they shouldn't continue to prove why they are a great option, or that they're beyond needing to prove they're the best.

Excellent post.

[Face Shooter]

I'm not impressed at all by LTT. From the CS hassles I've read on various forums to Langdon himself getting butthurt at legitimate criticism of his company, I will not give this company my business. Also their Cerakoting on their line of HK pistols is terrible, with overly thick application and even causing reliability issues due to the excessive coating.

[GyroF-16]

I'm not impressed at all by LTT. From the CS hassles I've read on various forums to Langdon himself getting butthurt at legitimate criticism of his company, I will not give this company my business. Also their Cerakoting on their line of HK pistols is terrible, with overly thick application and even causing reliability issues due to the excessive coating.

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had such a different experience with LTT than I have. Whenever I’ve had an issue with their products, they’ve gone above and beyond to make it right.
When you posted about your dissatisfaction with the HK Cerakoting, I had two B92 slides on the way to LTT for Cerakoting. I read your post and was concerned…. I got them back and they were beautifully done, and fully functional during test firing and rezeroing.

I don’t write this to question the validity of your experience, but to offer more data points on their “normal” level of performance and customer service.

[GJM]

Here is my issue. The original thread was titled "is anyone alive at Langdon Tactical." That strikes me as trying to provoke a reaction. Calling the thread "looking for help reaching LTT," would have worked without sticking a finger in someone's eye.

About thirty minutes after the thread is started, I see it and pm the guy and ask for his contact info. I call Aimee/Ernest, and LTT reaches out to him. My understanding is the issue is resolved that day, and Ernest posts that they initially dropped the ball.

Rather than take the high road and mention that his problem was fixed, and just minutes after posting on PF, now we get a new thread with eight paragraphs of negativity towards LTT. This isn't how you get a company, any company, to provide you good customer service. It also is not conducive to keeping people like Ernest posting here.

If I had a dollar for every gunsmithing issue I have encountered over the years, I could take a dent out of the national debt. The trick is to figure out how to resolve your issues and keep a relationship intact.

[Robinson]

I'm not impressed at all by LTT. From the CS hassles I've read on various forums to Langdon himself getting butthurt at legitimate criticism of his company, I will not give this company my business. Also their Cerakoting on their line of HK pistols is terrible, with overly thick application and even causing reliability issues due to the excessive coating.

Do you have personal experience with these things, or are they just things you've heard about?

[Clusterfrack]

@GJM, thanks for your post. This is spot on. I’m hoping we can wind this thread down without a lot of drama?

[JonInWA]

Here is my issue. The original thread was titled "is anyone alive at Langdon Tactical." That strikes me as trying to provoke a reaction. Calling the thread "looking for help reaching LTT," would have worked without sticking a finger in someone's eye.

About thirty minutes after the thread is started, I see it and pm the guy and ask for his contact info. I call Aimee/Ernest, and LTT reaches out to him. My understanding is the issue is resolved that day, and Ernest posts that they initially dropped the ball.

Rather than take the high road and mention that his problem was fixed, and just minutes after posting on PF, now we get a new thread with eight paragraphs of negativity towards LTT. This isn't how you get a company, any company, to provide you good customer service. It also is not conducive to keeping people like Ernest posting here.

If I had a dollar for every gunsmithing issue I have encountered over the years, I could take a dent out of the national debt. The trick is to figure out how to resolve your issues and keep a relationship intact.

George, in fairness, Boing had a right to be frustrated, even though he may have some responsibilities as well regarding the situation. It sounds like Ernest and Aimee with the best of intentions may be experiencing some growing pains as the company successfully expands. One of the most difficult transitions to make is from being a guy with some great ideas and great products to being the head of a corporation, with the associated agglomeration of responsibilities and operational areas-just being great in the initial areas simply isn't good enough anymore, especially if you want to concurrently provide great products and great customer services. And putting additional people and the right systems in place to monitor and head things off can be difficult, and not necessarily in the immediate wheelhouse of the company/product founders.

To any of us that's ever been trapped in a seeming Mobius loop of a corporation telephone message response tree without getting either an acceptable response/resolution/human contact, I totally sympathize with Boring and his aggravated initiating thread title.

Again, it's great that you personally perceived the situation, took the ball, ran with it, and used your personal associations with Ernest to successfully past it to him-where it was then immediately and decisively handled.

Now Ernest and Aimee need to objectively dissect exactly what when wrong (and they may have already done this), and figure out how to put appropriate systems in place in case there isn't a GJM present and attentive when the next situation arises.

Potentially, there's a huge silver lining in all this for LTT-and all of us who appreciate them, their products, their commitment, and something like this can actually be an opportunity if successfully grasped to enable them to get to their next level of success.

Best, Jon