Stoeger -- People don't understand red dots

[BWT]

I watch all of Ben’s videos these days.

In one of them he says target focus is like trigger control - you will never be completely target focused just like trigger control will always be a focus. You should be, but your eye will drift to it. I think the goal is to be more target focused with the realization you’ll never be 100% there, but 70% is better than 10%.

Man if I had more free time I’d join the PSTG. I already have 2-3 subscriptions of services I barely use.

I’ve found Ben’s commentary to be useful and accurate.

[Exiledviking]

I understood you. I just find it interesting and useful to turn it down for some drills. For sure, if I'm shooting groups at 25+ I turn the brightness down a lot. But also, sometimes I'll shoot doubles, practical accuracy, or fast transitions with a dim dot.

I've found that I prefer the dot intensity down a little, because if it's too bright I tend to look at the dot and not the target. Like you, when I shoot the local Bullseye match, I turn down the dot intensity quite a bit.
For speed, I run the intensity up a little bit more, but I'm still cautious in not getting it too bright and loosing the target focus.

[Tokarev]

Maybe a better thread title would be, "People don't understand Ben Stoeger."



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[Noah]

Small observation on my journey from using a dot with poor target focus 2020-2022, small spot target focus irons in 2023, and now trying a dot again- in the past, when I would not look to a small spot and then always end up staring at the bright glowy thing, I was very aware of what the dot was doing in recoil.

Now that I'm keeping focus on precise spots on targets, just like Stoeger mentioned in the video, I see the dot lift away from the spot and see the dot when it comes back to the spot. I genuinely couldn't tell you exactly what the dot is doing in recoil, other than coming back to the spot well.

[GJM]

I think dot intensity matters. There is an intensity that is ideal for me for zeroing and static shooting hard targets, but is one click too low when shooting on the move or shooting close open targets.

[WDR]

I think dot intensity matters. There is an intensity that is ideal for me for zeroing and static shooting hard targets, but is one click too low when shooting on the move or shooting close open targets.

Shooting 25 yard B8's on an indoor range or zeroing my RMR's, I prefer a lower intensity, about 3-4 notches below max on my RMR's. Shooting faster/closer targets I prefer intensity 1-2 down from max. At brighter intensities, RMR dots bloom a bit for me (astigmatism) but it only bothers me in more dimly lit situations. In full sun, I really don't notice the blooming.

I know some folks say the RMR's auto-adjust sucks, but I've found it to work pretty well for me in day to day use, even with a weapon light in dark environments. I'm not shooting near as much as most folks here, especially outside an indoor square range, and the weapon light I've used most with my RMR's is a TLR-7, not the bright as noon day sun WML that most LE probably would use, so that may be a factor. Carry use, I leave the sight in auto-adjust mode, and it seems to preserve battery life quite a bit compared to say two notches down from max setting all the time. I was over 2 years on my last battery, with no signs of the dot fading. If I know I'm going to be outside in full sun most of the day, I'll manually adjust to 2 notches down from max. I can manage most targets with a brighter dot if I have to... going the other way is harder.

Going back to target focus vs dot focus, I shot this today at ~10 yards, indoors, dot 2 notches down from max:



I was trying to be aware of what my eyes and focus were doing, thinking of this thread, but shooting how I normally would. I was keeping both eyes open, pushing speed a bit, and doing my best to focus on the "X" and not the dot. That's two 15rd magazines, shot around a .20-.30 pace between shots (fairly fast for me, as evidenced by the leftward drift). I found myself following the dot maybe 25% of the time, but had a fairly hard focus on the "X" through both strings of fire.

At 25 yards, I can barely make out the "X" and it's a bit harder to "pick a spot"... but trying to maintain target focus, and just letting the dot settle in the black until it is stable, my eyes seem to want to naturally center things up. That was a recent thing that seems to have helped my 25 yard shooting. YMMV.

I guess you can put me in the "working on it" camp.

[GJM]

Nice shooting!

On the RMR, I like the auto on the RM-07, but not so much on the RM-06.

That from a Glock?

[YVK]

I watch all of Ben’s videos these days.

His output is up to three videos per day. Most prolific guntuber of the year, so far.

[WDR]

Nice shooting!

On the RMR, I like the auto on the RM-07, but not so much on the RM-06.

That from a Glock?

Thanks! I'm humble enough to know that I suck compared to most folks of P-F, but I also know I shoot handguns better than the vast majority of regular folks out there.

Indeed it was a Glock! Ignore the Apex trigger, as I went back to the stock trigger and put the Apex in my 34.5 for now. This one wears an RM-06 in an FCD plate... But I have a RM-07 direct milled to my 26.5. I don't notice much difference between the auto-adjust, but I do perceive the larger dot to be more round, and less "comma" shaped with my slight astigmatism. Sometimes I wonder about folks saying the bigger dot auto adjust works better. Maybe it has more to do with larger dot size being easier to see at lower brightness levels, as I doubt the circuitry or programming is different between the various RMRs.

[WDR]

A lot of the pistol dot stuff seems to be somewhat old hat for rifle dot shooters.

I think that is at least true from the "target focus" vs "sight focus" end of the discussion. Pistol dots do have their own set of challenges, like "finding the dot", that are not as much of an issue on a long gun. One thing a lot of rifle shooters never unlearn is squinting or closing the offside eye while aiming. I put a lot of practice in on small game when I was younger, and for hitting moving targets, you really have to look at what you want to hit... preferably with both eyes open. It also works with lower powered magnified optics.

Quick story time: I recall a time when I was hunting jackrabbits with an AR carbine equipped with a Aimpoint Micro 4 MOA sight. Where I was hunting was interspersed mounds with brush on them, and salt flat around the mounds.



The rabbits would sit hiding in the brush on the mounds, but then break cover and run like hell across the flats when you pushed through. As I was working my way along the edge of a salt flat, zig zagging to cover as much of the edge as I could, a rabbit broke cover and shot out into the open flat at Mach 5 maybe 35 yards away from me. My eyes never left the rabbit, and I swing the rifle onto the gray laser beam and broke the snap shot in one smooth motion, resulting in a 55gr SP making solid contact and dropping the rabbit stone dead. That couldn't have happened if I had taken time to "aim"... that was pure target focus, like shooting a clay or bird with a shotgun.

Yes, I was aware of the dot, but focused on where I wanted to hit, not what the dot was doing. That is a learned technique... and it takes effort to be consistent about it. I'm convinced if folks could spend a few weeks hunting jackrabbits out west with dotted pistols, they' come away with a better understanding of WHY target focus works so well.