Stoeger -- People don't understand red dots

[Failure2Stop]

Shooting ACOGs occluded has its own issues.

I’ve not seen anything like 50% in the groups I’ve had doing occluded shooting with pistol red dots, nor have other commercial instructors who teach pistol optics.

Is there any source for that number other than anecdotal observation?

As mentioned there are also other factors which can cause issues shooting occluded.

I think that the ACOG is somewhat of a unique worst-case scenario. The short eye-relief blocks a lot of the down-range features that the brain uses to knit images together, so the eye just kinda wanders off.
Occluding magnified optics is really a learning step anyway, not a solution to a problem.

[HCM]

I think that the ACOG is somewhat of a unique worst-case scenario. The short eye-relief blocks a lot of the down-range features that the brain uses to knit images together, so the eye just kinda wanders off.
Occluding magnified optics is really a learning step anyway, not a solution to a problem.

Agreed re: ACOGs and I only advocate it on pistol optics as a training tool as well.

[jellydonut]

@Archer1440 All those thing you talked about Olympic rifle shooting hold true for what I have learned about vision in high level clay shooting which is another 100% target focused sport.

Eta, I’ve also thought that a neutral tone gray, FDE/tan or light blue optic might be much better than black for helping keep peoples focal plane on target vs the usual bold black that can have lots of contrast and be an additional focal point.

In that vein has anybody had experience with some of the FDE optics and how to they work?

I have an FDE Acro now and I notice no difference compared to the black optic I had before.

Worrying about the color of the optic's frame feels like bikeshedding to me.

Dot shooting is a training issue, not a gear issue! You will be fine with an FDE Acro, an SRO, or a shitty Burris Fastfire (at least until it breaks).

[Clusterfrack]

Occluding magnified optics is really a learning step anyway, not a solution to a problem.

I agree, and the same for occlusion of non magnified optics.

[GJM]

Relevant to this thread, this recent Stoeger video will add food for thought. One take away, no matter what you think, maintaining target focus is an ongoing struggle.

[rob_s]

I think that the ACOG is somewhat of a unique worst-case scenario. The short eye-relief blocks a lot of the down-range features that the brain uses to knit images together, so the eye just kinda wanders off.
Occluding magnified optics is really a learning step anyway, not a solution to a problem.

Do you think that's true of the minis too?

I ask because the ONLY ACOG I've ever really spent any time with is my TA33, and for sure the only one I've ever occluded with a cap, and I never really noticed any downsides that I could recall other than a slight re-learning curve after too much downtime.

[GJM]

Not sure how it relates to an ACOG, but with my Eotech 3x magnifier behind an EXPS, it is nearly impossible for me to do the occluded concept. I definitely want the magnifier down and out of the way, except for those shots that require it.

[rob_s]

I will confess to one thing (or maybe a few)...

1. I haven't shot a pistol with any real frequency in years, and in a match in maybe close to a decade.
2. I have been rather anti-RDs on pistols (and remain so to some degree) but am coming around a bit for some uses.
3. FINALLY getting out and shooting my AK plus a few other guns recently has me realizing just how difficult a front-sight focus can be with old(er) eyes.
4. All of my action match shooting in the past several years has been with an RDS-equipped 9mm SBR.
5. All of my other shooting has been sporting clays (which is expressly target-focused, at least the way we do it).

which does have me re-thinking/considering RDS on pistols, if for nothing else beyond match shooting.

I still resist/resent/refuse the added cost and complexity but I suppose as my eyes get worse and worse maybe the cost & bulk & complexity tradeoff becomes more worthwhile.

[mtshooter]

I had a big breakthrough when I heard from Jedlinski "Think of the target as your front sight, and the dot as your rear sight."

[JCS]

There isn't consensus that picking a singular spot of focus is mandatory. Stoeger has definitely pushed this but Steve Anderson for example differs on that.

I personally cannot pick out a spot on a target and hold focus on it, even without a gun. My eyes don't work like that.