Calling on my Springfield 1911 .45 Mil Spec friends re firing pin stop

[PNWTO]

MIM is not necessarily bad. Poorly done MIM is bad, but so is poorly done anything else. Properly done MIM will work quite well.

One of the weirdest moments I’ve had in the “gun space” was actually in my old employer’s (aerospace industry) break room. The young engineers, old-timer machinists, and assorted office nerds (younger me included) were BS’ing about gun stuff. Everyone was whinging about MIM parts in guns while they made their paychecks making MIM parts for military birds, commercial airliners, etc.

It’s never a MIM issue, it’s always a QA/QC issue and how motivated the folks on the floor are to verify their products.

[MattyD380]

I don't have a ton of trigger time with 1911s. But I've owned a few. And I've owned a gazillion other handguns over the past 12 years.

I think the Springfield Mil-Spec is a very nice gun. Regardless of price.

It has that intangible sense of quality you get when something feels well made--not in, like, a luxurious way... but in a functional way.

Yeah, it uses MIM. But so do HK USPs. And if it didn't, you and I couldn't afford it. Moreover, everything I've read seems to suggest that Springfield uses high-quality forgings for all the primary components--i.e., barrel. slide, frame. In all likelihood, the forgings still originate from IMBEL in Brazil. I think someone else mentioned Korea, as a potential source. But the machining is nicely done and the fit/finish is excellent. The barrel crown even glistens--like a tactical rainbow--in the right light.

I just can't stand that GI grip safety. As soon as I get a chance, it will be replaced.

[TOTS]

Thank you for chiming in, L-2! That's valuable information you provided. I've heard from three members who have shot the hell out this gun without it falling apart: You, Tots and Trooper 224. I think it's time to finally stop researching and dicking around. It's time to order the gun, learn new things and have new experiences.

Thank you all once again! anytime you help a senior citizen you gain some good karma!

I’m flattered to be included in the above company but folks like they and @SW CQB 45 have shot more rounds in one of their 1911s than I have total! I bring him specifically up because he carries a (pair, I believe) Springfield 1911 as his duty weapon. Search his posts and you’ll get a bunch of info on higher mileage Springfield 1911s. I believe he even cracked a FP stop and spoke to replacing it. I don’t think he found it until a visual inspection so the gun still worked with the broken part.

Buy with confidence. I agree with all the above and would add that by the point you shoot out the FPS, you have spent more on ammo for it than the purchase price of the pistol itself. And if not, the manufacturer should take care of it for you. Springfield was once known as a leader in customer service.

[gato naranja]

One of the weirdest moments I’ve had in the “gun space” was actually in my old employer’s (aerospace industry) break room. The young engineers, old-timer machinists, and assorted office nerds (younger me included) were BS’ing about gun stuff. Everyone was whinging about MIM parts in guns while they made their paychecks making MIM parts for military birds, commercial airliners, etc.

It’s never a MIM issue, it’s always a QA/QC issue and how motivated the folks on the floor are to verify their products.

A family member experienced the same thing. One of the more logical participants made a pithy comment about the irony of not trusting the MIM in their firearms while not worrying about the MIM in the birds they were building.

One of my long-term acquaintences is a retired gent of many parts, among which was being the guy where the QC buck stopped. He was the person who finally got me to cease pursuing "bombproof" replacement parts without stopping to think about the wisdom of installing an "unbreakable" $20 component on something like a receiver... which ideally should fail AFTER the semi-disposable and easily replaced component does, rather than BEFORE. This was reinforced by an incident where a slide stop lever let go, and the pistol's owner was asked whether he would prefer to buy another slide stop and get on with life, or buy a new pistol because the receiver fractured or had been battered out of spec by a super-duper, unbreakable slide stop lever.

[RJ]

I did replace the FPS on my Garrison, only because I wanted to experiment with different radius of curvature as per JMB original and the mod that was put into the A1 to allow the slide to rack easier. I bought both a "normal" and "square bottom" FPS from Wilson Combat, and fiddled around with both. The original Springfield FPS was sloppy in the slide, and the extractor was not held very firmly in place. It did work, of course. I slid the Wilson parts in with no drama, or fitting at all. Both fit extremely snugly and firmly into the slot. At the moment I have the flat bottom one in the gun, but lightly polished (as in, with a felt wheel). (I bought the gun to fiddle with parts and have the 1911 experience).

But yeah bottom line the Springfield Mil Spec is a good choice and I'm sure based on the stories of their customer service, will take care of you if you have any issues with the MIM parts (or any other part, for that matter.)



* PS Thread drift, and I know next to nothing about 1911s, but if I was looking for an affordable GI-style model with tool steel internals, I'd go look at a Tisas Stakeout:

https://tisasusa.com/tisas-1911-stakeout-45/

Plus a beavertail grip safety, and that ring hammer is pretty cool. I mean, the Springfield is a solid choice, and I have one and all. But $479 msrp and a street price below that I'd guess, a Tisas it would be a solid option as well. I don't have any trigger time with a GI grip safety but they look awkward and subject to hammer bite, to me, but I dunno.

[Gary1911A1]

I know I'm going to muddy the waters, but look at the Ruger SR1911. I think it has a lot to offer. It's plunger tube is casted with the frame so it won't pull off locking your thumb safety in the on position and can be protected but a good set of grips that partly cover it. The frame is casted like the Caspian Frames out of Pine Tree and are as tough as nails. I have found the thumb and grip safeties to be well fitted in their price range with good triggers and great reliability.

[Trooper224]

Trooper 224, thank you, that's very likely sound, solid advice. I'm kind of an analytical anal guy who likes to know all his things are in proper working order!

What do you think of buying a forged pin stop to have on hand? Can you suggest a manufacturer or two?

Wilson Combat and Harrison Custom have traditionally been my main parts suppliers. EGW has also been making me happy of late.

You could have an endless amount of spare parts on hand and wind up never needing them, or something could break right away. You just never know. Personally, I've never broken a firing pin stop. I've never had an issue with a GI grip safety, although a beaver tail safety is superior. I have experienced a lot of hammer bite with some GI hammer/grip safety combos, but not all. There are many variations, even within "GI" parts.

Just get the gun, fire 500 to 1000 rounds through it, then make decisions.

[Danko]

Thank you all for your fine advice! I realize I'm creating problems before any problem has had a chance to manifest itself. Afterall, I don't yet even own the gun. Thinking things over last night I came to the realization I'm intimidated by the gun because I know next to nothing about handguns, and frankly, I'm also intimidated by the rather extensive gun knowledge many of you posses. I am however grateful you folks are kind enough to offer help. The obvious solution is buy the damn gun, enjoy learning how to shoot it, and if a part happens to fail, I'll deal with it then.

[SoCalDep]

I've put a decent amount of rounds through 1911s over the years, and I've owned more than a few.

The 1911 is not a firearm for the casual user. You might be lucky and get one that runs 100% out of the box. Those pistols exist and are more common than many 1911 haters would like to admit, but problems certainly arise more than the 1911 worshippers would ever admit. As has been mentioned above, I've had cheap 1911s run fine right out of the box and $3,000 custom guns that had to go back to the factory almost immediately. It is frustrating, but it's part of the world of 1911s that makes them so intriguing.

I might have missed it, but just for clarity, the firing pin stop (FPS) is, as was stated by many before, the retainer plate for the firing pin and firing pin spring, a positioning and retention plate for the extractor, and a "profile" that controls (to an extent) the amount of force required of the slide to push back against the hammer. This is part of the timing and proper function of the pistol. As a beginning 1911 shooter you don't need to understand all that... I figured I'd throw it in just to add some more detail to the topic.

The firing pin safety (also known as a firing pin block and some other names as well) is a set of parts in some 1911s such as the Sig, Para Ordnance, and Colt "Series 80" pistols, in which a mechanism physically blocks the forward motion of the firing pin until the trigger is pulled. I have 1911s with and without firing pin safeties. They weren't in the original design, but aren't all necessarily bad. I do prefer my 1911s to be more original and only have a couple with firing pin safeties.

I've cracked two firing pin stops. They were both on my highest round count 1911s with around 10,000 rounds through each and tons of dry fire. One (Springfield Range Officer Compact 9mm) was replaced through warranty because I wanted them to fit a spare extractor just in case. The other (Springfield/Springfield Custom TRP .45) was replaced with an EGW version by the department armorer/gunsmith. I like EGW and have heard very good about Wilson firing pin stops.

This is a good time to bring up that a cracked firing pin stop is not the same as a broken one. From what I've gathered, a cracked fps could potentially go thousands of rounds without actually breaking. That said, I'm not big on letting things that are "cracked" be ignored.

I've also broken a hammer strut (also on the TRP), which was well over 20,000 rounds at the time.

Two weeks ago I broke the extractor claw (forged part) on a Staccato. It's back at the factory now for fixing and a few little "upgrades".

I had a couple ambi-safeties start to fail to function correctly - the precurser to breakage. They were replaced with single-side safeties. For lefties who are going to be using an ambi a lot I recommend the EGW version with the sleeve around the pin section or the Wilson Combat bullet-proof version.

I've experienced hammer-follow several times. A couple times with new guns ($3K Springfield Professional and Les Baer Concept Something) but mostly after replacing parts (usually the trigger). Nothing in a 1911 is likely to be "drop in", and changing anything without knowing what to do, how to check for issues, and how to confirm proper function is simply dangerous.

I've seen a bunch of other issues with other's guns from broken grip safety arms, cracked barrels and lower barrel lugs, broken slide stop lobes, a cracked barrel bushing, and tons of different malfunctions caused by lack of maintenance, poor timing with improper springs and parts, and excessive wear due to poor fitting.

I've fired around 40,000 rounds through an individual M&P without cleaning or lube. You won't get that performance out of a 1911. With lack of maintenance you can get the common functional issues such as sluggish slide reciprocation and failures to feed and eject, failures to extract due to dirty or pitted chambers or buildup in the extractor channel, and other things such as buildup internally that prevents the disconnector from resetting the action. I've had that happen twice on high round count 1911s. It requires a detail disassembly and cleaning and the pistol is right up and functioning again.

All this to say don't buy a 1911 and think you're going to get the same performance as an M&P or Glock without a substantial investment in maintenance, time, and education in the platform.

I still love the 1911. I love the innumerable ways one can replace parts to change function, looks, and feel. It's art to me. Beauty in violence. Add to that the history from development to patenting and adoption in 1911, use in WWI and WWII, Vietnam, Korea, and by special forces such as Marine Expeditionary Units - the MEU(SOC) pistols, USMC Force Recon and evolved units, Army Delta, FBI HRT and SWAT, LAPD SWAT, Long Beach PD, and cops from the end of the wild west through gangster times (Super .38 is the "Original Gangster" - or "anti Gangster" round), and even in to the modern era with 2011s and such.

I don't really shoot 1911s any better than polymer guns, but I like them better. That enthusiasm leads me to want to shoot more... practice more, and makes me better. I'll take that.

As for your Mil-Spec purchase, I think it's a great intruductory 1911. There are certainly other options in similar or even a bit lower price range or if you want the features you could spend just a bit more for a Springfield Garrison. I'm a really big fan of Springfield guns, so I don't think you'll go wrong with the Mil-Spec, but if you want something more WWII authentic I'd look at the Tisas, or if you want more features in a budget gun you could check out the Ruger or Springfield Garrison - even some of the other Tisas offerings. I have a MAC JSOC (Tisas) that has been a great gun for the price and I carry it often.

Discuss mil-spec and what one must, should, could, and have done to them as main guns or base guns.

[Shorikid]

MIM is not necessarily bad. Poorly done MIM is bad, but so is poorly done anything else. Properly done MIM will work quite well.

If you shoot your gun enough, stuff will wear out and/or break. When it does, replace it with a machined part from any supplier with a good reputation. Wilson and Evolution Gun Works are good places to start.

Everyone love Glocks for reliability, and they have MIM parts as well.

I started with a Springfield Mil-Spec over 20 years ago. After thousands of rounds I replaced the fps. No because it cracked, but because it was part of learning to smith the gun and I was fitting the fps to the new extractor.

There is a thread here on 1911 operation. Might be worth a read. Yes, some of us a fixing pistols and tinkering, but it is loaded with experience and knowledge.

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