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Thread: Short barrel 9mm defense ammo

  1. #1
    Member LOBO's Avatar
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    Short barrel 9mm defense ammo

    Usually a G26 or G43X are my preferred carry guns. Sometimes a 442. May get a G48 in the future and explore putting a MRDS on it.

    It's getting close to time for me to restock my 9mm carry ammo. Federal HST is my preferred ammo. I've been carrying HST 124 gr standard pressure. I heard there was some sort of changes done to the 147 gr HST. Is the 147 gr still the preferred bullet weight in HST for shorter barreled guns or did the "change" to the 147 gr HST make it not as good as it used to be? I'm not opposed to carrying the +P 124 gr HST.

    Thanks,

    Chris

  2. #2
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    I’ve been using 124-grain +P HST in my P99Cs, which are basically a TDA G26. No issues, and they still run around 1150 fps from the 3-1/2” barrel.
    "Everything in life is really simple, provided you don’t know a f—–g thing about it." - Kevin D. Williamson

  3. #3
    Member LOBO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    I’ve been using 124-grain +P HST in my P99Cs, which are basically a TDA G26. No issues, and they still run around 1150 fps from the 3-1/2” barrel.
    Thank you for that info sir. I haven't been able to chrono any loads myself.

    Chris

  4. #4
    In those barrel lengths any HSTs will be fine.
    If not super worried about optimum barrier penetration, 124 gr. Punch will also work great and was tested out of a 43. In even shorter barrels than that it may even be preferred due to softer lead and often higher velocity (than standard pressure 124 hst) from the real micro barrels (3"-3.3"). But you are splitting hairs. All will perform and upset as designed especially in the 3.4" barrels you listed.
    As to newer vs old HST/147...farther penetration, slightly less expansion.

    I can provide Punch data from a g43
    And current 147 data from a g47

    Once posts approved by mods.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    I also use 124 +P HST in my 3.1" barrel pistols, but wouldn't hesitate to use standard pressure 124 hst (or 124/124+p gold dot).

    I would not use 147 HST based on them sometimes failing to expand out of short barrels (especially in clear gel after passing through heavy denim):
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrIiclxyKKI

    They did better in this test, but 1 of the 3 bullets looks like it was right on the edge of not expanding:
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTd1lNx_TQ


    There are folks here who consider any test performed in clear gel invalid and I've never seen 147 fail a test using real ordnance gel, but I'd rather pick one of the many rounds that passes all the tests in any type of gel...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    There are folks here who consider any test performed in clear gel invalid...
    ...and with good reason.

    The Clear Ballistic Goo has never been corelated to any human soft tissue; it under-represents bullet expansion, bullet yaw and fragmentation, temporary and permanent cavity effects, and over-represents maximum terminal penetration depth. These issues have been documented in depth by several authorities in the discipline (e.g.: Haag, Roberts, Ervin, Wood) and have been discussed at length in this sub-forum.

    All are easily located by using the ''search'' function.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    ...but I'd rather pick one of the many rounds that passes all the tests in any type of gel...
    Ignoring valid scientific methodology in favor of pseudo-scientific rigmarole provides nothing of value. It's an epistemological ''fool's errand''.

    ''The scientific method is not one of consensus, but rather one of using valid research to produce reliable, repeatable data that advances theory to law.''—me
    Last edited by the Schwartz; 02-14-2024 at 08:45 AM.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

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  7. #7
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    Haggard likes these things.

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    "Do nothing which is of no use." -Musashi

    What would TR do? TRCP BHA

  8. #8
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any convincing evidence against using 147 HST at any reasonable barrel length. I strongly prefer subsonic 9mm, especially if I might be shooting indoors without earpro.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I haven't seen any convincing evidence against using 147 HST at any reasonable barrel length.
    Neither have I.

    In fact, when tested from barrel lengths of 4.49" (Glock 17), 4.01'' (Glock 19), and 3.1'' (S&W Shield Plus) in correctly prepared 10% ordnance gelatin that shear validates within correct range (8.5±0.4cm), the Federal 9mm 147-grain HST provides excellent performance through four layers of 16-ounce/yd˛ denim in accordance with the IWBA specifications as seen in the attached video:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xQg_D7mcVRw

    When it is easy enough to use either 10% ordnance gelatin or water—both of which are proven soft tissue simulants—to obtain valid test results, it appears that both physical and intellectual laziness are significant factors that drive such individuals to rely upon the Clear Ballistic Goo.
    Last edited by the Schwartz; 02-14-2024 at 01:51 PM.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  10. #10
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    For sub compact guns I like the all copper loads from Corbon, Super Vel, Defiant Munitions and the like. If I couldn't find those I'd go with HST 124 +P.

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