I just had a ludicris idea

[Jim Watson]

Long ago I read that one of the caseless designs, HK G11, maybe, used "a denatured high explosive propellant" instead of conventional NC+NG powder. One source I Googled today calls it "High Ignition Temperature Propellant."

[BBMW]

You don't think this issue could be engineer for? This would not be some handloaded round someone would be mixing up in their basement. Everything that's part of the round (bullets, case, primers, propellant, etc.) would be engineered to deal with the stresses involved. If it ever happened, it would likely be developed by one of the major ammunition manufacturers. You don't think a company like Vista or Hornady could pull this off?

Everyone here is thinking very conventionally.

Do you know what setback is? In a standard semi-automatic pistol, sometimes the round gets pushed back into the propellent when the bullet is chambered. Do that enough, and it's possible to compress the propellent. When that happens, a kaboom is likely. There's a reason many of the members here don't reuse chambered rounds after a certain point, and will take steps to separate & mark them. Setback isn't as much of an issue for revolvers, but pay attention to the problem- compressed propellent make big pressure spike, and pressure spike make gun go kaboom.

Likewise, putting in a normal charge of gunpowder that is too hot can make gun go kaboom. Because a normal .357 can only handle so much pressure- about 35,000 PSI according to SAAMI.

Can you understand that for your idea to work, you MUST have higher pressures in the chamber- pressures that the normal run of non-modified .357 magnum revolvers can't handle?

As for the Metal Storm thing, the barrel is specifically designed to handle the high pressures. It's far from the concept you are trying to push which involves a standard .357 mag chamber. They have a special electronic ignition system that does not a firing pin hitting a primer on two separate occasions.

[PNWTO]

Reading through this thread, if I wanted a 12+ shot revolver, I’d get a DAO B92. On that point, revolvers are already (arguably) more complicated than most contemporary autoloaders, so I guess I don’t see the bang/buck ratio with this proposal.

[Joe in PNG]

There's the classic Rule of Uncommon Guns- Uncommon Guns are Uncommon for a Reason.

As much as I actually do like unconventional firearms like the Dardik, Lago Alien, Korth Autos, Steyr GB, H&K P9 & 7, et al, there's a good reason those aren't in common usage. Unconventional ammo, odd failure modes, need for expensive machining, and the fact they don't offer that much more than a conventional design.

[BN]

I'm thinking Dirty Harry could really use some of this ammo. Did I fire 5 or did I fire 12?

[Borderland]

You don't think this issue could be engineer for? This would not be some handloaded round someone would be mixing up in their basement. Everything that's part of the round (bullets, case, primers, propellant, etc.) would be engineered to deal with the stresses involved. If it ever happened, it would likely be developed by one of the major ammunition manufacturers. You don't think a company like Vista or Hornady could pull this off?

Everyone here is thinking very conventionally.

Hornady is too busy designing new manbun rifle cartridges for that once in a lifetime 1000 yd shot.

It should be noted that Sam Colt produced 1000 revolvers in 1837 and six years later the company was bankrupt from lack of sales.

[the Schwartz]

You don't think this issue could be engineer for? This would not be some handloaded round someone would be mixing up in their basement. Everything that's part of the round (bullets, case, primers, propellant, etc.) would be engineered to deal with the stresses involved. If it ever happened, it would likely be developed by one of the major ammunition manufacturers. You don't think a company like Vista or Hornady could pull this off?

Everyone here is thinking very conventionally.

Not to mention that your fellow P-F members are also engaged in some very practical and pragmatic thinking, too.

It should be clear by now that the complexity and expense of a design that offers no benefit over current technology or solves an actual problem/deficiency is not going to see any interest from manufacturers or investors. Their business model(s) is the creation of wealth through the sale of commodities that the public will find to be useful and desirable to obtain.

If you believe that you have a viable idea, the burden of proof lies upon you now in the form of ''proof of concept''.

If you cannot do so, beyond your mere verbal insistence that "This is a great idea! Quick! Somebody think of a way to make it work!'', this thing dies on the vine as it should.

[BBMW]

You're telling me you see no practical benefit to being able to fire twice as many individual shots without reloading from a gun someone already owns, without making any modifications to the gun? Given that one of the overwhelming directions of the gun business over the last few decades has been coming out with guns with more magazine capacity (of course in autoloaders), especially while reducing the size of the gun. Revolvers have been stuck with their capacity limitation because of the limits of how large a cylinder is practical. This, would change that, and instantly double the shot capacity (can't say mag capacity for a revolver) of ever .357 magnum revolver. And you see no benefit to that?

Of course, it would have to be made to work. This would take a good bit of engineering (mechanical, electrical, and probably chemical.) But given the complexity and the amount of engineering that a large amount of the stuff we use in our normal lives has taken to develop, I don't think that this would even be particularly difficult in comparison. I posted how I think this could work. Do I have the technical skill to do the detailed engineering work to bring it to fruition, no. Are there people who do, I'm sure there are.

Let me ask those who are deriding this idea a question. If this could be made to work reliably, and had a per round cost that was twice the cost of a premium defensive .357 magnum round, would you consider buying this ammo to use for defensive purposes. I'd concede it would not have .357 magnum ballistics (think standard pressure .38 levels of performance.) I'm explicitly trying to separate the "can it work" discussion, from the "if it does work is it worth buying" discussion. Maybe I'm the only one, but I think the concept of taking a gun like the Smith 360PD, and getting ten shots out of it would be pretty revolutionary, and very popular.

Not to mention that your fellow P-F members are also engaged in some very practical and pragmatic thinking, too.

It should be clear by now that the complexity and expense of a design that offers no benefit over current technology or solves an actual problem/deficiency is not going to see any interest from manufacturers or investors. Their business model(s) is the creation of wealth through the sale of commodities that the public will find to be useful and desirable to obtain.

If you believe that you have a viable idea, the burden of proof lies upon you now in the form of ''proof of concept''.

If you cannot do so, beyond your mere verbal insistence that "This is a great idea! Quick! Somebody think of a way to make it work!'', this thing dies on the vine as it should.

[the Schwartz]

You're telling me you see no practical benefit to being able to fire twice as many individual shots without reloading from a gun someone already owns, without making any modifications to the gun?

Yes. As explained before, the 'juice' simply isn't worth the 'squeeze'.

Lacking technical understanding in the discipline, you've proposed a hypothetical cartridge that lacks a specified design let alone a functional prototype, that will likely be considerably more expensive than conventional ammunition due to its reliance on additional components that will necessarily result in diminished performance due to internal volume constraints that have yet to be determined, and appeals to an admittedly limited market where it can easily be supplanted by any number of proven semi-automatic pistols on a lower cost per unit basis.

You're right. What could possibly prevent its success?

[Joe in PNG]

What we need is a good source of unicorn farts as propellent to make this work... maybe some mithril as the casing material and Unobtanium for the bullet.
Next, figure out the proper magic runes to ignite the unicorn farts, and we may be on to something! Should give you at least +4 Damage.