Large LE agency in the Los Angeles area going to AR Pattern 9mm Rifle maybe?

[308Rifle]

NHW/BofA absolutely drove the adoption of patrol rifles in Califonia. I can't speak for the rest of the country, though.

BTW, as I recall, LAPD got the following approved in the aftermath: .45ACP pistols, slugs for units other than Metro & SIS, and patrol rifles.

Not in law enforcement, I do have family that is or was, so I hear/heard things. My memory of all the publicly known stuff, news reports, things officers talked about etc.... YES just like you say, it was absolutely a driving factor in CA.

As for LAPD, my memory is their first batch of rifles came from the DOD, m16a1s, of which most had the full auto fire controls removed. These as I remember arrived fairly soon after too.

101 California shooting drove the adoption of semi auto handguns to a large degree in CA, and NHW/BofA drove the adoption of rifles...again at least in CA. I absolutely remember this being the case.


I seriously question a pistol caliber "rifle" would have made much difference if any. These guys were pretty armored. At best they might have made taking shots at their feet or other weak points easier at distance, at worst just slinging more useless lead down range. As others said this was in the days before red dots and LPVOs as we know them for the last 20 or so years so that kind of shot would have taken more skill than the average officer has for most of the incident with a pistol or pistol caliber "rifle".

[AMC]

Not sure that 101 California had any effect on California LE adoption of semiautomatic pistols. Even SFPD had a pretty generous personally owned weapon policy at the time allowing for 9mm and .45 ACP handguns. The biggest local result of that incident was to create what was probably one of the first 'Active Shooter' training programs in the country, though it focused heavily on the peculiarities of tactical response in high rise structures.

[banzaijohn]

CA DOJ mandates auditing of all “military weapons” in possession by law enforcement Depending on what 9 mm patrol rifle that agency goes with, that may circumvent their need to undergo auditing. Shotguns, btw are considered military weapons, so are less lethal launchers.

[Hambo]

the idea of a PCC is a hellacious step backwards.

It's everything I expect from LE administration.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Re L/E Agencies adopting PCCs:

It's everything I expect from LE administration.

And that is being kind. Given the contemporary operating environment, it is unconscionable to advocate for that.

[Hambo]

Re L/E Agencies adopting PCCs:



And that is being kind. Given the contemporary operating environment, it is unconscionable to advocate for that.

If we were talking in person you'd have known that I didn't mean to be kind. All I expect from LE admin is stupidity, good idea fairies, pointless stats, funding cuts to mission critical items, failure to understand the needs of the people who work for them and the people they serve, and bad policies/practices, all spewed out in a river of double talk and bullshit.

[Tensaw]

Re L/E Agencies adopting PCCs: And that is being kind. Given the contemporary operating environment, it is unconscionable to advocate for that.

The PCC idea is *really* gonna seem stupid when some of these jihadists who have been allowed across the border spin up and get busy. Can you imagine responding to the Mumbai Mall event with ye olde PCC? No thanks.

[WobblyPossum]

The PCC idea is *really* gonna seem stupid when some of these jihadists who have been allowed across the border spin up and get busy. Can you imagine responding to the Mumbai Mall event with ye olde PCC? No thanks.

You’re using pre-9/11 thinking. There’s no need to import jihadists. There are more than enough already here. Many of them are US citizens by birth. It’s much easier to radicalize disaffected young people already here than it is to sneak terrorists into the country. Almost every terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11 was perpetrated by people who’ve lived practically their whole lives in the US.

[DrkBlue]

You’re using pre-9/11 thinking. There’s no need to import jihadists. There are more than enough already here. Many of them are US citizens by birth. It’s much easier to radicalize disaffected young people already here than it is to sneak terrorists into the country. Almost every terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11 was perpetrated by people who’ve lived practically their whole lives in the US.

I hesitate to comment, but…

The scholarship and the last 20 years of the UK experience absolutely support the contention that a vast majority of risk is naturalized, not recent foreign emigration. There are some first generation radicalization to attackers out there - San Bernardino being an example. The experience of the post-2020 Afghani emigration has been more indicative of limited to low risk in the initial immigrant population.

However, second and even some third generations are more likely to seek radicalization.
Fort Hood? Read up - https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/fi...al%20Hasan.pdf

[Magsz]

This thread is saddening to me.

I posted about this sometime last year in an effort to try and understand whether or not this was an isolated incident with my department or if this was going to become a widespread thing within the industry.

It sounds like some of this stupidity may be catching on and i'd love to know what moron is peddling this garbage.

For us, it's the belief in the fallacy that 9mm wont over penetrate as much as a .223/5.56 round.

I really do wonder what the reasoning is in other places.

Ultimately, I really do hope that this merely in addition to and not a replacement for a quality M4/AR15.