Better home defense than Glock 19 (don't need CCW) option for low skill user?

[NETim]

Waaaayyy back in 2004, I attended my first ever defensive handgun course with Clint Smith at the old Thunder Ranch down in sunny Texas. Even though it was October, it was still 95F. About 50F hotter than the plains of Nebraska.

Anyway, I toted along my first centerfire handgun, a Sig 220ST. The beast. The anchor. Because I was new to this whole handgunning thing, my marksmanship sucked. I still managed to learn a lot though. Even more once I learned I needed to stay hydrated and set aside my ego.

Since then, I've managed to elevate my marksmanship all the way up to mediocre by USPSA standards. Hot rod by pasture tin can rolling standards.

Long story short, I noticed that in that class of 30 some students, about 80% of them were running Glocks. Even the civvie types.

Every subsequent training class I've taken since then, I've noticed the same phenomenon, Glocks. Lots of them. I've witnessed what I consider some phenomenal shooting with Glocks both in classes and in matches.

Somewhere in there I think there's a clue.

Take a class with a good instructor. Take another class with a good instructor. Practice what they train. Learn the Glock.

[Cheap Shot]

Thanks for all of the considerate responses; I am so impressed with how knowledgable and welcoming this group is.

All of your notes makes sense about investing in the software before the hardware. Based on this and feedback in my other thread I will stick with the Glock and am shopping around for 2 or 3 day starting course within a few hours drive of central Texas.

I should have clarified up front that I while I am not sensitive to size within the pistol class it does need to be a pistol as I'd like to use it for both home and vehicle defense, so it needs to fit in a glove box or a slim biometric safe that can go under the car seat.

Thanks also for the notes about the importance of lighting. I do already have a pretty decent olight handheld but haven't been keeping it near the gun, just in a kitchen drawer. I'll add another flashlight for the bedside, and look into a few gun mount options.

For your consideration:

Paul Howe

https://www.combatshootingandtactics...ourses-pricing

Karl Rehn

https://www.krtraining.com/index.html

I'm sure there are other Tx instructors or visiting instructors but thought I'd share the links above.

Best of luck on your journey

[HCM]

For your consideration:

Paul Howe

https://www.combatshootingandtactics...ourses-pricing

Karl Rehn

https://www.krtraining.com/index.html

I'm sure there are other Tx instructors or visiting instructors but thought I'd share the links above.

Best of luck on your journey

I’ll add Green Ops (Texas) which is a P-F site supporting business does training in both the San Antonio and Houston areas.

https://www.green-ops.com

Two trainers I recommend who specialize in new shooters are Tim Reedy of TDR traning in Bandera, TX (San Antonio/hill country) and Craig Summers of Templar Defense in the Houston area.

https://tdrtraining.com


https://www.templardefense.com/classes

[Le Français]

I'd like to use it for both home and vehicle defense, so it needs to fit in a glove box or a slim biometric safe that can go under the car seat.

I recommend considering the scenarios in which you think you might need a gun while in your vehicle. Chances are very good that driving away would be the right answer in almost every case (with the remainder being situations in which your vehicle is completely blocked or disabled). Thinking up a situation in which you would be unable to drive away and have time to retrieve the gun from a safe under your seat requires a fertile imagination. Leaving it in a more accessible place in the car, like the glove box, makes it vulnerable to theft, and theft of guns from vehicles is unfortunately common.

I don’t have all the answers; I just recommend giving it some thought. My personal approach is that when there’s a defensive/duty pistol in my car, it’s because it’s in a holster that I’m wearing.

[Noah]

Thanks for all of the considerate responses; I am so impressed with how knowledgable and welcoming this group is.

All of your notes makes sense about investing in the software before the hardware. Based on this and feedback in my other thread I will stick with the Glock and am shopping around for 2 or 3 day starting course within a few hours drive of central Texas.

I should have clarified up front that I while I am not sensitive to size within the pistol class it does need to be a pistol as I'd like to use it for both home and vehicle defense, so it needs to fit in a glove box or a slim biometric safe that can go under the car seat.

Thanks also for the notes about the importance of lighting. I do already have a pretty decent olight handheld but haven't been keeping it near the gun, just in a kitchen drawer. I'll add another flashlight for the bedside, and look into a few gun mount options.

For a pistol mounted flashlight, look at a Streamlight TLR1HL, or just get a handheld like a Streamlight HLX, Streamlight PolyTacX, or Surefire G2X single output. Remember that for a WML, the gun will be pointed at anything the light is pointed at.

The Glock will be simpler to manipulate and maintain than anything else, and the Glock and some training will be EXPONENTIALLY more effective than some new gun and no ability to employ it.

Safe storage is very important, I would check out something like the Stopbox, Streamlight Speedlock, anything from V-Line, or Shotlock Solo Vault M for a non electronic lockbox to control access. If you're going to leave the gun in your car, it is crucial that you cable lock the lockbox to a seat anchor or something and hide it from view. Someone getting unintended access to your firearm at home, or someone busting your window and arming themselves are immediate ways to turn your solution into a life changing problem. The best place to keep a gun in the car is in a holster on your person that goes with you when you leave.

[paul-mf]

I recommend considering the scenarios in which you think you might need a gun while in your vehicle. . .

I don’t have all the answers; I just recommend giving it some thought. My personal approach is that when there’s a defensive/duty pistol in my car, it’s because it’s in a holster that I’m wearing.

Thanks, Le Français, I've been thinking similarly. Whenever possible, drive away or run away. Your post does help me clarify my thinking that I would only ever keep it in a safe if being left in the vehicle; glove box is off the table. The vehicle defense scenario I'm thinking of is when going to areas that feel less safe and having the pistol as an option. In these scenarios I would have the gun out of the safe and 'holstered' between the seat and center console for quick access. If I reach either a level of comfort with the Glock that it's no big deal to keep it on my person, or a level of discomfort with the world that I feel I need to always have an immediate firearm option then I will step up to concealed carry.

[psalms144.1]

Thanks, Le Français, I've been thinking similarly. Whenever possible, drive away or run away. The vehicle defense scenario I'm thinking of is when going to areas that feel less safe and having the pistol as an option. In these scenarios I would have the gun out of the safe and 'holstered' between the seat and center console for quick access. If I reach either a level of comfort with the Glock that it's no big deal to keep it on my person, or a level of discomfort with the world that I feel I need to always have an immediate firearm option then I will step up to concealed carry.

Anything that's not tied to you in your vehicle will almost certainly NOT be where you think it is when you need it. If it's in a box secured to the vehicle, you won't be able to get to it when you really need it.

There's an old but very applicable saying that you should never go anywhere with a gun that you don't feel comfortable going without a gun. Unless your job REQUIRES you to go to places you feel "less safe," the smart answer is to just not go there.

I'd echo, again, all of the advice on getting training first, before you even start to think about equipment upgrades. Not to be a giant jerk (but I did grow up in NY) if your only shooting experience resulted in you missing a decent size target at VERY close range with 4/5 rounds, you shouldn't be carrying that firearm. I pretty much guarantee you will NOT "rise to the occasion" in the stress of a self defense situation, and every one of those bullets you missed with is going to go past your target and hit something or someone you don't want to.

I'm not saying you shouldn't carry a gun, I'm just saying you should get training before you start toting that thing around with you.

Best of luck!

[MickAK]

Thanks, Le Français, I've been thinking similarly. Whenever possible, drive away or run away. Your post does help me clarify my thinking that I would only ever keep it in a safe if being left in the vehicle; glove box is off the table. The vehicle defense scenario I'm thinking of is when going to areas that feel less safe and having the pistol as an option. In these scenarios I would have the gun out of the safe and 'holstered' between the seat and center console for quick access. If I reach either a level of comfort with the Glock that it's no big deal to keep it on my person, or a level of discomfort with the world that I feel I need to always have an immediate firearm option then I will step up to concealed carry.

Please don't leave your pistol in your car in a safe under the seat.

Please don't 'holster' it between the seat and center console.

You'll find out why as you learn more, it's just important that you don't get hurt or become a theft statistic while you're learning.

[Clusterfrack]

Thanks, Le Français, I've been thinking similarly. Whenever possible, drive away or run away. Your post does help me clarify my thinking that I would only ever keep it in a safe if being left in the vehicle; glove box is off the table. The vehicle defense scenario I'm thinking of is when going to areas that feel less safe and having the pistol as an option. In these scenarios I would have the gun out of the safe and 'holstered' between the seat and center console for quick access. If I reach either a level of comfort with the Glock that it's no big deal to keep it on my person, or a level of discomfort with the world that I feel I need to always have an immediate firearm option then I will step up to concealed carry.

I think I misread your post initially, and the responses above are important. I often have a Glock in a kydex holster inside a Tuffy console safe in my truck. That is my solution for when I feel the need to have a gun handy, and don't already have one AIWB.

Handguns need to be in holsters to be safe.

[HCM]

Please don't leave your pistol in your car in a safe under the seat.

Please don't 'holster' it between the seat and center console.

You'll find out why as you learn more, it's just important that you don't get hurt or become a theft statistic while you're learning.

Guns left in cars full time will eventually be stolen and become crime guns. If you’re going carry a gun it belongs on your person. The whole “car gun” thing in Texas is a vestige of the bad old days when carrying a gun in your car was the only way to legally carry. However that went away 30 years ago. Now it’s just an excuse for people too lazy or irresponsible to actually carry their gun.

In fairness, there are times when one has to enter a location that prohibits legal carry. In that instance, temporary storage of a handgun in a safe out of plain view (such as under a seat) is reasonable IF the safe is secured to the frame of the vehicle. The most common solution is to attach the safe/lock box to the mounting bracket of the seat with cable locks or chain and a padlock. Custom “console vault” lock boxes are another option if they are bolted into place.

The idea of accessing a handgun from one of these lock boxes quickly enough for it to be of use in a self defense situation is extremely unlikely.

As the great philosopher Ferris Buehler said “Life comes at you quick.”