Better home defense than Glock 19 (don't need CCW) option for low skill user?

[Ed L]

Not at all, psalms144.1, I welcome the direct feedback. So much to learn! The gun won't go with me anywhere until I've completed enough training to feel confident using it to hit 6" targets at 7 yards+. I've also shelved gun upgrades other than exchanging my gen 3 for a gen 5 MOS since I otherwise can't mount the holosun 509 I just purchased. .

I echo the sentiments of the people who told you to stick to the Glock for the time being and not start buying other guns before you are proficient with the Glock.

I like the idea of trading in the Gen 3 Glock for an optic-ready Gen 5 Glock. I like the Gen 5 because it dispenses with the finger grooves on the grip that the Gen 3 and Gen 4 had. I would stay away from a Kimber 1911 as they tend to have function issues. I went this personally and it was a mess.

I don't like the idea of adding the Holosun right away. I think it will require more time and complications. How does one sight in a Holosun optic if one cannot shoot? If you go to a beginner's class with a pistol mounted optic that is not sighted in, I am not sure the instructor could accommodate you. If you are going to a private lesson with a gun that is not sighted in the teacher will be able to accommodate you, but it will take time away from other things planned.

Also there is the installation. I would suggest you have someone who is experienced with it install it the optic. If you install the optic yourself you may do it incorrectly and that will detract from your class or your private training.

If you have a Glock with factory sights, it is ready to go to the class as the gun currently is.

[11B10]

Paul - the single biggest/best part of your quest has been to find, and stick with, pistol-forum.

You will learn everything you could possibly need to know right here. The best part about THAT? These SME's offer their knowledge - and their priceless experience, with no attitude, for free.

Become a sponge.

Welcome.

[paul-mf]

I continue to be blown away by the level of knowledge, quality of responses, and patience with newbie ignorance here. I do think this is one of the best online communities out there. Thank you again to everyone for your help with getting me off to a good start on this journey.

One can’t go wrong by working the fundamentals as you dry practice and shoot. I return again to the theme that actual instruction will seve you well. Get it as soon as you possibly can.
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That suggests to me leaning a bit toward a fast, “coarse” hit. For example, one standard would be 5 rounds into a five inch circle at 5 yards to work toward.

@1Rangemaster, appreciate the grounding here. I’m lining up instruction asap. The idea of 5 rounds into a 5 inch circle at 5 yards sounds like great initial goal. If you were to add a timing objective as well, what would that be? My first thought is “within 15 seconds from draw”; not sure if that is realistic, or conversely, not ambitious enough.

I think the Rob Leatham "aiming is useless" video isn't actually saying that aiming is useless. Aiming becomes fairly useless IF you can't break the shot without shoving the gun out of alignment at the last couple

. . .

Developing a very good, strong, technically sound grip, and learning to accept the recoil without having this convulsive pre-ignition angular deflection, is the trick here.
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@frozentundra, thanks for yet another extremely helpful response. this makes perfect sense in light of a rewatch of the video: it’s not a dismissal of traditional sight aiming in general, but more that any level of sight aiming can be completely undermined by poor trigger pull or by fussing too much over exact aim at the expense of adequate aim.

As a tech nerd and investor this does make me think there might be an opportunity to advance the state of dry fire training tools. It seems like the two biggest things missing in dry fire training options are recoil and report. Could haptic motors and a capable speaker system help address these gaps, I wonder?

My first question is why you're leaning hard toward home/car defense. Do you live in a crime ridden neighborhood? Are you in the drug trade? Live with a crazy, homicidal redhead? If not, it's pretty unlikely that you'll ever need to shoot in your house. Second, how do you think a gun in your car is going to help you? If you get jacked, it will be on your way to the car, getting in/out. You need your pistol on your person. More importantly, you need to avoid a fight, or at least see it coming.
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@Hambo, excellent questions, thank you for the challenge. My thinking may be off base here. I’ve been fortunate(?) to have only 4 disconcerting personal or family safety events in my first 55 years on this planet. 3 of those developed slowly enough that the availability of a firearm on my nightstand or in my glovebox could have made a real difference if things had escalated further. The 4th would have required personal carry and high speed competence to change the outcome. As I reflect more on the possible future scenarios that I’d like to mitigate it does seem I need to invest in learning CCW effectiveness for vehicle and travel scenarios, as well as something like a shotgun for home defense.

Hey Paul -

I'll throw this in - What is your hand size?

Great timing, @RJ, I was just going to post separately about my hands feeling too large for the Glock 19. Things feel awkward and cramped when I transition from off trigger to on trigger. Your chart indicates that this is entirely user error as my hand size is right on the border between Medium Large and Large. I’ll wait for personal instruction before spending too much solo time on grip work.

[Noah]

Great timing, @RJ, I was just going to post separately about my hands feeling too large for the Glock 19. Things feel awkward and cramped when I transition from off trigger to on trigger. Your chart indicates that this is entirely user error as my hand size is right on the border between Medium Large and Large. I’ll wait for personal instruction before spending too much solo time on grip work.

I'd say the "cramped" feeling when going from a high register off the trigger to getting on the trigger is normal on any Glock due to the slightly smaller than average trigger guard. I just got used to it.

[FNFAN]

I was just going to post separately about my hands feeling too large for the Glock 19. Things feel awkward and cramped when I transition from off trigger to on trigger. Your chart indicates that this is entirely user error as my hand size is right on the border between Medium Large and Large. I’ll wait for personal instruction before spending too much solo time on grip work.

You've gotten some great advice from folks who have been long time shooters, trainers and administrators of shooting programs for large agencies. The idea about trading your GEN3 for a GEN5 is an excellent one as they are a significant upgrade from GEN3. I also wanted to say Welcome to the Forum -it's refreshing to see people come here asking cogent questions and being open to absorbing great advice in a congenial manner. The midsize Glocks are a great "do everything" platform. Good Luck!

[1Rangemaster]

@paul-mf : I certainly don't take credit for that little evaluation, and apologize for not giving a par time : it's 5 seconds.
The eval was from a lady named Gila May Hayes, top notch instructor in the Pacific Northwest. It's usually shot from some sort of "ready" position, handgun in hand(s). One can progress to running it with a holster draw-unconcealed-and then from concealment. Another contributor here, Claude Werner, aka "the Tactical Professor" has an evolution where it has to be cleaned 5 times in a row: the 5^5. He and many others to include myself, have consistently found most folks aren't successful first time out. Please don't let the time intimidate; a suggestion would be to start with 1 round on target in 5 seconds, then 2, etc. Again, I started out last century like you are now, but without the internet. Life would have been easier and more economical if I'd gotten decent instruction and coaching really early on.
You write intelligently, so please take this as concerned advice: resist as much as you can going down the gear "rabbit hole". I have sincere respect for @RJ, but unless you have something wildly inappropriate for a defensive piece, like a hand cannon or mini .22 short revolver, the G19 will serve just fine.
I look forward to reading about your training.

[paul-mf]

Hi @Ed L and @BB10L, your responses came in while I was composing my previous post.

I like the idea of trading in the Gen 3 Glock for an optic-ready Gen 5 Glock. I like the Gen 5 because it dispenses with the finger grooves on the grip that the Gen 3 and Gen 4 had. . . .

Appreciate the additional validation. I made the swap for a used gen 5 at our local gun store yesterday, over an also available new gen 5. This pistol has some sort of aftermarket grip texture and a few patina scratches around the muzzle, but at $200 less than the new gen 5 combined with the reputation of Glock reliability it seemed like the better choice. The rear site is cosmetically damaged; I didn't care about this as I am replacing front and rear with suppressor height sights from Ameriglo so that I can cowitness through the holosun.

I don't like the idea of adding the Holosun right away. I think it will require more time and complications. How does one sight in a Holosun optic if one cannot shoot? If you go to a beginner's class with a pistol mounted optic that is not sighted in, I am not sure the instructor could accommodate you. If you are going to a private lesson with a gun that is not sighted in the teacher will be able to accommodate you, but it will take time away from other things planned.

Also there is the installation. I would suggest you have someone who is experienced with it install it the optic. If you install the optic yourself you may do it incorrectly and that will detract from your class or your private training.

If you have a Glock with factory sights, it is ready to go to the class as the gun currently is.

I have similar concerns but I am continuing with the holosun for now. I've been assuming that either my instructor or the local store can help me zero the sights before getting into serious training and practice. Recognizing that it is a rough calibration at best, I have at least dialed in the holosun to confirm that it matches up with what the Pink Flamingo bore laser shows as the hit point. Worst case, if the instructor can't help zero or doesn't like the idea of an optic for basic training, I can remove the holosun for the duration of the course.

[mmc45414]

If you had come here before buying the G-19, maybe there would have been alternatives to consider. But as mentioned, at this point just spend the money on holsters, ammo, range time, and training.

[1Rangemaster]

@paul-mf , a couple of other pieces of information:
1) The hardware part should be an easy button-software needs to be addressed too. You came here asking about home and vehicle defense-great. Tom Givens sums it up succinctly: "carry your damn gun". If you believe your home relatively secure, then invest in a good mini safe to secure your defensive weapon. But carryng takes care of having to decide where, when, etc.
2 cases to illustrate: a lady restaurant manager came to us a few months back for instruction, something I volunteer to do at my club. Long story short, after a few hours over several sessions, she began to carry, especially when opening at 0530. She was followed into her store-before opening-by two men who she felt menaced her. They refused to leave, moved toward her, etc.. Out came the Glock 17 to a ready position, and they hastened elsewhere. Nothing dramatic, but she (and I)are glad she had the piece, the instruction and the awareness to do something.
Second anecdote, my youngest daughter, doing some nanny work had two small children with her on a little field trip just before Christmas. In a hobby/toy store they were looking at a model train diorama in the rear. Yelling and screaming come from the front of the store. Daughter puts herself between her and her charges and comes to ready with a G43. One thug who was waving a handgun-there were two-notices, screams/curses and both run away. That is as good an outcome as can be hoped for.
What do they have in common? Both incidents were in "good"(affluent)neighborhoods. Both involved adult women defenders-and both had their means of defense on their person and were "willing"as some say around here.
2)Werner is of the opinion that if a defender can deliver a relatively quick shot to a 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 4 yards that will cover a lot of situations. The two I described were pretty close to that. My point here is keep the objective(s) realistic.
If you want to go further-great!

[1Rangemaster]

Hi @Ed L and @BB10L, your responses came in while I was composing my previous post.



Appreciate the additional validation. I made the swap for a used gen 5 at our local gun store yesterday, over an also available new gen 5. This pistol has some sort of aftermarket grip texture and a few patina scratches around the muzzle, but at $200 less than the new gen 5 combined with the reputation of Glock reliability it seemed like the better choice. The rear site is cosmetically damaged; I didn't care about this as I am replacing front and rear with suppressor height sights from Ameriglo so that I can cowitness through the holosun.




I have similar concerns but I am continuing with the holosun for now. I've been assuming that either my instructor or the local store can help me zero the sights before getting into serious training and practice. Recognizing that it is a rough calibration at best, I have at least dialed in the holosun to confirm that it matches up with what the Pink Flamingo bore laser shows as the hit point. Worst case, if the instructor can't help zero or doesn't like the idea of an optic for basic training, I can remove the holosun for the duration of the course.

Solid gear from your picture. I'd respectfully but strongly suggest you get support gear, as in belt, holster and mag carriers. If you want to support a Texas business, JM Custom Kydex can't be beat, IMO.
Two suggestions for the optic: one check it for loosening frequently as you start out, and two, get a spare battery. That looks like a 509T which takes a 1632 battery.
Edit to add: check with your instructor, but just about everyone I've heard of would check your zero with you, and/or sort that before you start...